Information on Hans Joachim Marseille (Star of Africa)?

[Acrimony45]

Hi,
I'm doing research on Hans Joachim Marseille, and I read that he had a fiancee named HanneLies Kupper. I am looking for information regarding who she was, when she was born, what happened to her after the war, etc.
I have already gone through all the main sources regarding Marseille (Mein Freund Marseille, Hauptmann Marseille by Walter Wubbe, Star of Africa by Colin Heaton, and the Tribute to Hans Joachim Marseille by Robert Tate, as well as the book on Marseille by Franz Kurowski.). I also tried finding her on Ancestry.com, and looked through the available birth and death registers for the post-war years using the Landesarchiv Berlin to the best of my ability. So far, I believe I have not left a single stone unturned. However, I am just wondering if anyone has any information that I have not been able to uncover yet or if anyone would be able to point me in the right direction regarding my research.
Thank you! (Also, sorry if this was posted in the wrong forum; there wasn't a thread for biographical research, and since this is kind of related to aviation and stuff since HJM was a pilot, I figured it would be the right place to put this.)

 

[GrauGeist]

A brief search turned up that Hanne-Lies Küpper was a teacher in Berlin.
She passed away in Munich on 12 August 1987 at the age of 81.

 

[Acrimony45]

A brief search turned up that Hanne-Lies Küpper was a teacher in Berlin.
She passed away in Munich on 12 August 1987 at the age of 81.

Did you get that from the article on WW2Gravestone.com about Hans Joachim Marseille?
I believe the person who wrote that article made a mistake; apparently there was an opera singer by the name of Annelies Kupper and she passed away on 08/12/1987 in Munich (they actually meant 12/08), but probably wrote it the European way (with the day first).
Thanks anyways!

 

[Koopernic]

Hi,
I'm doing research on Hans Joachim Marseille, and I read that he had a fiancee named HanneLies Kupper. I am looking for information regarding who she was, when she was born, what happened to her after the war, etc.
I have already gone through all the main sources regarding Marseille (Mein Freund Marseille, Hauptmann Marseille by Walter Wubbe, Star of Africa by Colin Heaton, and the Tribute to Hans Joachim Marseille by Robert Tate, as well as the book on Marseille by Franz Kurowski.). I also tried finding her on Ancestry.com, and looked through the available birth and death registers for the post-war years using the Landesarchiv Berlin to the best of my ability. So far, I believe I have not left a single stone unturned. However, I am just wondering if anyone has any information that I have not been able to uncover yet or if anyone would be able to point me in the right direction regarding my research.
Thank you! (Also, sorry if this was posted in the wrong forum; there wasn't a thread for biographical research, and since this is kind of related to aviation and stuff since HJM was a pilot, I figured it would be the right place to put this.)

If she had children, which is often unlikely for women of her age due to so many men falling in combat and spouses and potential spouses that fell in combat she might have passed her story on. Your best bet might be sister who's children might carry that on. If she did find the opportunity to marry she wouldn't have been talking much about her ex fiancé.

Good luck.

 

[Acrimony45]

If she had children, which is often unlikely for women of her age due to so many men falling in combat and spouses and potential spouses that fell in combat she might have passed her story on. Your best bet might be sister who's children might carry that on. If she did find the opportunity to marry she wouldn't have been talking much about her ex fiancé.

Good luck.

Thanks for the advice...I never thought to look for her relatives or anything, but then again there's not much I can find when I don't even know what year she was born in. I do know that in 1967 she was the guest of honor along with Marseille's mother at a WWII fighter pilot's convention in Furstenfeldbruck in Germany but although there are pictures of Marseille's mother at the event with other pilots there are no pictures of her there...I also found it kind of strange that none of the records on geneology websites for Germany didn't have anything about her, even though I was able to find Marseille's mother, his father, and his dead sister on there. But it could just be that maybe she moved somewhere else, or something like that.
Thanks again for the insight!

 

[GrauGeist]

It's not unreasonable to think Marseilles may have had a connection with Ms. Küpper, as he was known for flings with notable women - although fooling around with a General's wife may have been pushing his luck a bit too far.

If you check her biography, she was a music teacher. She made occasional guest appearances in Opera, including the State Opera in Berlin. If you compare her publicity photos to ones of Marsailles and his fiance, there is a striking resemblance.

 

[Acrimony45]

It's not unreasonable to think Marseilles may have had a connection with Ms. Küpper, as he was known for flings with notable women - although fooling around with a General's wife may have been pushing his luck a bit too far.

If you check her biography, she was a music teacher. She made occasional guest appearances in Opera, including the State Opera in Berlin. If you compare her publicity photos to ones of Marsailles and his fiance, there is a striking resemblance.

True, you do have a point.
It's just that she was born in 1906 and he was born in 1919...I don't know, maybe that might seem a bit strange since that would make her almost 13 years older than him...then again things were different back then so maybe that was considered somewhat normal?

 

[GrauGeist]

Older women were not out of Marsailles' realm.
One of his "friendships" was with Zarah Leander, who was a singer and she was born in 1907.
There was also Leni Reifenstahl, an actress who was born in 1902.

He was certainly a ladies' man!

 

[Koopernic]

Older women were not out of Marsailles' realm.
One of his "friendships" was with Zarah Leander, who was a singer and she was born in 1907.
There was also Leni Reifenstahl, an actress who was born in 1902.

He was certainly a ladies' man!

I don't think he was anticipating a long life as much as a fast one. He might have been a ladies man but I doubt he was seducing or misleading them. He clearly had some alpha genes and they were likely as enchanted with him as he with them.

 

[Patrick]

I don't know if you are still looking for information?

 

[Patrick]

Martin Stephani (2 November 1915 – 9 June 1983) married a singer called Hanne-Lies Küpper on 28 December 1944. During WW2 he served as a SS-Obersturmführer in the 1st SS Panzer Division Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler. After the war is became a professor of conducting at the Detmold University of Music and he served as chancellor of this university from 1959 to 1982. This Hanne-Lies Küpper was born on May 25, 1914. I hope this can help you?

 

[Acrimony45]

Martin Stephani (2 November 1915 – 9 June 1983) married a singer called Hanne-Lies Küpper on 28 December 1944. During WW2 he served as a SS-Obersturmführer in the 1st SS Panzer Division Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler. After the war is became a professor of conducting at the Detmold University of Music and he served as chancellor of this university from 1959 to 1982. This Hanne-Lies Küpper was born on May 25, 1914. I hope this can help you?

Thank you so much for providing this info for me I really appreciate it

 

[Patrick]

Thank you so much for providing this info for me I really appreciate it

Your welcome. If the information is right her full name was Hanne-Lies de Bahar-Stephani-Küpper, which means that Küpper was her maiden name and that she married twice. First to Martin Stephani, but later she married again to someone with the name of De Bahar. I don't know if she was the fiancee of Marseille.

Under German law, a person's surname does not change automatically upon divorce or if their spouse dies. Divorcees and widows may choose to revert to their maiden name or any other surname that they have held in their life, including those of former spouses.

 

[Acrimony45]

Your welcome. If the information is right her full name was Hanne-Lies de Bahar-Stephani-Küpper, which means that Küpper was her maiden name and that she married twice. First to Martin Stephani, but later she married again to someone with the name of De Bahar. I don't know if she was the fiancee of Marseille.

Under German law, a person's surname does not change automatically upon divorce or if their spouse dies. Divorcees and widows may choose to revert to their maiden name or any other surname that they have held in their life, including those of former spouses.

I did some research of my own after you gave me her name and date of birth, and I found that she had been married to an Argentenian music producer in 1939 named Cesar Renato de Bahar. They got divorced in 1940 because she had a miscarriage.
According to the source, the Hanne-Lies Kupper that married Martin Stephani is also the same person who was engaged to Marseille in 1942

 

[Patrick]

I did some research of my own after you gave me her name and date of birth, and I found that she had been married to an Argentenian music producer in 1939 named Cesar Renato de Bahar. They got divorced in 1940 because she had a miscarriage.
According to the source, the Hanne-Lies Kupper that married Martin Stephani is also the same person who was engaged to Marseille in 1942

Amazing! Do you know what happend to her after the war?

 

[Acrimony45]

I did some research of my own after you gave me her name and date of birth, and I found that she had been married to an Argentenian music producer in 1939 named Cesar Renato de Bahar. They got divorced in 1940 because she had a miscarriage.
According to the source, the Hanne-Lies Kupper that married Martin Stephani is also the same person who was engaged to Marseille in 1942

I'll just link the picture of the source that was given to me here...it's in German so i had to translate it but at the bottom of the first page it does say that she was engaged to Marseille

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Very cool info!

This is deserving of his song;

 

[Acrimony45]

Amazing! Do you know what happend to her after the war?

i think the last thing anyone saw of her was when she attended the 1967 Fighter Pilot's Reunion with Marseille's mother as a guest of Honor in Furstenfeldbruck...I don't know what happened to her afterwards; there doesnt seem to be any info available on her past that point

 

[Acrimony45]

i think the last thing anyone saw of her was when she attended the 1967 Fighter Pilot's Reunion with Marseille's mother as a guest of Honor in Furstenfeldbruck...I don't know what happened to her afterwards; there doesnt seem to be any info available on her past that point

I just find it all kind of strange, because she was 5 years older than Marseille, who at that time was 22 and so he was 2 years younger than the average age of marriage for men at that time (which was 24). Additionally, he first met her in March, and they were engaged in March according to the picture of the book, and even after that he continued to have affairs with actresses and other women and things like that. Furthermore, she was a divorcee, and had had a miscarriage before, and women to whom those things happened were overall viewed with suspicion by their peers at that time (in the 1940s).

 

[Patrick]

I just find it all kind of strange, because she was 5 years older than Marseille, who at that time was 22 and so he was 2 years younger than the average age of marriage for men at that time (which was 24). Additionally, he first met her in March, and they were engaged in March according to the picture of the book, and even after that he continued to have affairs with actresses and other women and things like that. Furthermore, she was a divorcee, and had had a miscarriage before, and women to whom those things happened were overall viewed with suspicion by their peers at that time (in the 1940s).

You are right, what a understand from the photo is that she lived with Marseille his mother after his death and that she trained and worked as a opera singer during and after the war.