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Have you seen this? 398th Bomb Group Combat Formations By Wally Blackwell, Pilot 601st Squadron December 2003Thanks J. However, I'm looking for documents on formation flying in the USAAF. I have detailed documents from 6-Group on Gaggle flying.
The Wikipedia article on the "Combat Box" is somewhat informative but is rather lacking in detail. This book seems an interesting source, but I don't have a copy:
Freeman, Roger A. (1991). The Mighty Eighth War Manual, Motorbooks International,
Jim
If you read the wiki page Combat box - Wikipedia you can see it wasn't a constant and B-17s used slightly different formations. Also from what I have read the formation spacing changed on a mission, a tight formation is better for air defence but worse against ground flak.PBehn: Thanks so much! That is exactly what I'm looking for!
Jim
If you read the wiki page Combat box - Wikipedia you can see it wasn't a constant and B-17s used slightly different formations. Also from what I have read the formation spacing changed on a mission, a tight formation is better for air defence but worse against ground flak.
I recommend Freeman's The Mighty Eighth War Manual as a 'must have' in your library.Thanks P. However, I'm looking for documents on formation flying in the USAAF. I have detailed documents from 6-Group on Gaggle flying.
The Wikipedia article on the "Combat Box" is somewhat informative but is rather lacking in detail. This book seems an interesting source, but I don't have a copy:
Freeman, Roger A. (1991). The Mighty Eighth War Manual, Motorbooks International,
Jim
I am working on a document on "Gaggle Formations" used by RAF Bomber Command in the last part of 1944 and through 1945, and want to understand the technical differences in Gaggle Formation...the gaggle was outside of fighter cover, and 8 aircraft were shot down by Me.262's.
Royal Canadian Air Force operations record book... - Héritage
Jim
Hi Mike and welcome. The ORBs do not provide the tactical and organizational details for your father's operations that you may be interested in researching. You have to go elsewhere for this information. I have the operational orders (Form B's) for all of dad's ops. They identify the numbers of fighter escort squadrons on patrol and the rendezvous points. The only exception was dad's operation to Mathias Stinnes, 24-March-1945, on which occasion there was so many allied fighters over enemy territory, there was no specific escort assigned.Hi Jim, I found your post looking up something else... typical internet.
Please note that in the ORB there is no mention of fighter cover/escort.
The RCAF/ RAF typically operated without.
The "P.F.F." Pathfinders were special duty Squadron/ Aircrew to mark targets with coloured flares... colour of the day the mark target as the Germans might try to divert by using flares. At times the flares might be changed if the "red" was off, the Master Bomber may try to correct by calling green, yellow etc. Typical use of the Pathfinder and Master Bomber who may circle overhead calling corrections or secondary targets to bombers in the stream.
"A/P" is attack point or target.
Dad was with 427, he was on leave the 31st ( I have his log) they'd had a tough go the 25th with badly wounded flight Engineer, flak through windscreen and a motor out.
This leave gave dad a chance to visit his brother in hospital. A medic, he'd been wounded and captured... stole a pistol and forced his captors to carry him back to Canadian lines.
They all made it home.
The tactics and equipment were very different - Dad was always struck that the Lancaster could carry the load of 2 B17's with only 7 crew; 1 Pilot*, Air Bomber, Navigator, Wireless/H2S, Flight Engineer, Mid-Upper Gunner. Rear Gunner. * generally the Flight Engineer, Air Bomber or Nav were expected to take over if pilot was out.
There could be at times a specialised operator for H2S radar, electronic counter measures, and some Halifax aircraft ( 425 Sqn) were briefly equipped with a belly, or "dorsal" turret.
Dad posited that the Mosquito could have won the war itself if they'd built enought; fast, good range, 4 guns, 4 cannons and carried up to a 4000 pound bomb with only 2 crew endangered.
Cheers, Mike
Mike: Was your father in "T", ME.501, this record? My father was on this operation. I have considerable details on it if you are interested.Hi Mike and welcome. The ORBs do not provide the tactical and organizational details for your father's operations that you may be interested in researching. You have to go elsewhere for this information. I have the operational orders (Form B's) for all of dad's ops. They identify the numbers of fighter escort squadrons on patrol and the rendezvous points. The only exception was dad's operation to Mathias Stinnes, 24-March-1945, on which occasion there was so many allied fighters over enemy territory, there was no specific escort assigned.
If you wish to see some of these documents for your father's operations, I could provide them to you. I do not however have these for January or April,1945. I also have the review of the events of 31-March-1945. Bomber Command was highly critical of 6-Group procedures on that day.
Jim
Very Good! PM me your email address. I will send you a "Tranche" of Documents. Give me a list of his operations and I will send you the Form "B"'s. These are highly informative. I also have a limited selection of the 100-Group material. Mostly germane to the Night operations.Hi Jim, Yes that's dad. I have the ORBs, 427 Sqn Assoc did a "War Diary' in the 80's which dad scribbled notes- I transcribed them and they are at the 427 Assoc website.
I'd be interested in anything you have. F/O FD Kaye flew at 427 Jan 16 1945 to June 1 1945
Cheers, Mike Kaye