Is Having A Private Pilot's License Of Any Use?

[gumbyk]

There's also a question of liability if credit was given by a school for something that was allegedly previously covered and later on there is an incident that involved that segment of training.

I think the fact of a student moving between multiple schools has been implicated in accident investigations.

They did at one time, I think since the IFT program was started, civilian schools were done away with.

Ours (RNZAF) - not yours

I should have been more clear...

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Ours (RNZAF) - not yours

I should have been more clear...

Got it, LOL! I thought I was answering someone else!

 

[special ed]

I would have been a great fighter pilot, except for my grades.

 

[MIflyer]

Back in the 1990's CASF Gen McPeak made a disastrous change in IPT-type training. A former member of the Thunderbirds, he thought that aerobatics ought to be taught from the beginning. So the USAFA got rid of the safe and reliable T-41 and bought the Slingsby Firefly. However, they needed a bigger engine and that precluded keeping the header tank, where fuel gravity flows to the engine. After two crashes that killed two instructors and students and with numerous close calls due to engine failures, the Fireflys were grounded and eventually scrapped.

Somebody pointed out they probably could have done much better if they had reverted to PT-17's.

 

[gumbyk]

Back in the 1990's CASF Gen McPeak made a disastrous change in IPT-type training. A former member of the Thunderbirds, he thought that aerobatics ought to be taught from the beginning. So the USAFA got rid of the safe and reliable T-41 and bought the Slingsby Firefly. However, they needed a bigger engine and that precluded keeping the header tank, where fuel gravity flows to the engine. After two crashes that killed two instructors and students and with numerous close calls due to engine failures, the Fireflys were grounded and eventually scrapped.

Somebody pointed out they probably could have done much better if they had reverted to PT-17's.

That's a problem of aircraft selection, not training philosophy.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Back in the 1990's CASF Gen McPeak made a disastrous change in IPT-type training. A former member of the Thunderbirds, he thought that aerobatics ought to be taught from the beginning. So the USAFA got rid of the safe and reliable T-41 and bought the Slingsby Firefly. However, they needed a bigger engine and that precluded keeping the header tank, where fuel gravity flows to the engine. After two crashes that killed two instructors and students and with numerous close calls due to engine failures, the Fireflys were grounded and eventually scrapped.

Somebody pointed out they probably could have done much better if they had reverted to PT-17's.

There were more issues than that. I can't go into it at this time (someday I will if we ever discuss this again) but I knew the wife of one of the pilots killed.

There was nothing really wrong with the Fireflys and they could have served a useful purpose had the aircraft been properly evaluated, IP training been better and a less demanding curriculum been developed.

 

[MIflyer]

I would have been a great fighter pilot, except for my grades.

Suggested T-shirt for you.

.

 

[MIflyer]

a less demanding curriculum been developed.

That was indeed key. And I guess if the fuel system had been modified to not put the lines so close to the muffler maybe the vapor lock problem could have been fixed.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I am private pilot, and while I feel this gives me a better understanding of aerodynamics and how/why airplanes fly, and it may give me an advantage in aeronautical decision making (a big maybe) over someone with no flying experience, in no way does it prepare me to be a better fighter pilot.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

That was indeed key. And I guess if the fuel system had been modified to not put the lines so close to the muffler maybe the vapor lock problem could have been fixed.

That was a party line - there was no issues in the air during normal flight, starting was the problem and if one knew what they were doing, this wasn't an issue either. I guess if you can start an F-16 you can start an IO-540 on a hot day, right?

 

[gumbyk]

That was indeed key. And I guess if the fuel system had been modified to not put the lines so close to the muffler maybe the vapor lock problem could have been fixed.

A standard part of any type rating is hot starts and how to deal with vapour lock. As long as the fuel is flowing (i.e. engine is running) its not a problem.

 

[MIflyer]

Meanwhile, while they will no longer give people with a pilot's license a leg up, they are also doing this: From Avweb Flash:

The Air Force is turning the tables on the aviation industry and is trying to attract trained civilian pilots into its corps. The Air Force is looking at two pathways to bring in pilots whose flying skills and general abilities will let them bypass some of the military training that all new Air Force officers go through. "Somebody who is exceptional and extremely well qualified might be able to bypass undergraduate pilot training altogether. We would put those folks through an Air Force fundamentals course … to bring them up to speed on Air Force differences, teach them how we fly, teach them the things that they need to know to make a difference," Maj. Gen Craig Wills told Stars and Stripes. It's also looking at working with colleges and universities that offer undergraduate aviation programs and include some military-style curriculum so that when they graduate they can skip some of the Air Force training if they decide to join up.

The Air Force is short pilots now and is training about 250 fewer than the 1500 a year it has set as a goal and attracting some from civvy street might be a partial answer. "Potentially, we could have an opportunity where we have added to the number of pilots at a relatively low-cost point," Wills said. "Obviously, the number one thing is the quality of the training and the standard of these officers. That's non-negotiable." The Air Force is also trying to get more diversity in its cockpits, which are now occupied overwhelmingly (more than 80 percent) by white males. There is, of course, more to being an Air Force pilot than being a great pilot. "The most important thing on that program is you still have to be willing to fight and kill and potentially die for your country to serve as an Air Force officer. And that's a pretty big lift," Wills said.

 

[MIflyer]

A standard part of any type rating is hot starts and how to deal with vapour lock. As long as the fuel is flowing (i.e. engine is running) its not a problem.

I strongly suspect that the modified Firefly would have been unable to receive a civil certification.

 

[gumbyk]

I strongly suspect that the modified Firefly would have been unable to receive a civil certification.

Yeah, but if they weren't taught to start a hot engine, what sort of training did they receive? Civil or military, "How to start your aeroplane" is fairly basic stuff.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Meanwhile, while they will no longer give people with a pilot's license a leg up, they are also doing this:

That is not true as mentioned. I know for a fact that at the USAFA and at ROTC programs, if you have a PPL you can get into the IFT program easier. You still run the full curriculum. I worked on the program for several years and I know that hasn't changed

I strongly suspect that the modified Firefly would have been unable to receive a civil certification.

Actually those operated at the USAFA and at Hondo Texas did have a Type Certificate Data sheet (A73EU). I can't remember if they carried "N" numbers, I think some did. I was supposed to work at the Test Pilot's School at EDW in 2002 maintaining several that was supposed to be operated there. After the bad press, the program was cut and the remaining aircraft were scrapped.

I think if you look at the TCDS, the fuel mod is included.

 

[Dash119]

Maybe this disparity exists because so-called minorities don't have an interest in becoming USAF pilots? If you really want to break this down, 13% of the US population is African American. 86% of USAF pilot are white. Do the math!

Not to dispute any of your other points, but the math doesn't work here. It would if the U.S. population was 13% African American and 86% white, but that is not the case.

 

[gumbyk]

Actually those operated at the USAFA and at Hondo Texas did have a Type Certificate Data sheet (A73EU). I can't remember if they carried "N" numbers, I think some did. I was supposed to work at the Test Pilot's School at EDW in 2002 maintaining several that was supposed to be operated there. After the bad press, the program was cut and the remaining aircraft were scrapped.

I think if you look at the TCDS, the fuel mod is included.

There are quite a number of fuel mods required before civil registration, as well as a list of mods/airworthiness directives.

 

[Peter Gunn]

I am private pilot, and while I feel this gives me a better understanding of aerodynamics and how/why airplanes fly, and it may give me an advantage in aeronautical decision making (a big maybe) over someone with no flying experience, in no way does it prepare me to be a better fighter pilot.

A very wise man once told me "Son... there's flying fighters and then there's fighting fighters... big difference".

 

[FLYBOYJ]

There are quite a number of fuel mods required before civil registration, as well as a list of mods/airworthiness directives.

And if you look at the dates of those mods they were issued well after the crashes at USAFA

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Not to dispute any of your other points, but the math doesn't work here. It would if the U.S. population was 13% African American and 86% white, but that is not the case.

Well if we just want to talk African Americans 100% white - 13% AA = 87% so the number is slightly off. And yes we haven't included other minorities.