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wmaxt said:Remember MaGuire was stupid that day, which is always fatal in combat.
wmaxt
Glider said:FJ I feel as if I am going to regret asking this, but what did Tom Mcgurie do on his last mission?
Everyone else seems to know but me
Soren said:DerAdlerIstGelandet said:Again my friend stats dont prove anything, stats are just aproximations and paper can be burned.
There are no miracles in aerodynamics
DerAdlerIstGelandet said:Soren said:DerAdlerIstGelandet said:Again my friend stats dont prove anything, stats are just aproximations and paper can be burned.
There are no miracles in aerodynamics
Certainly not but you and a lot of people seem to think that what they read in a book or on a piece of paper is the only truth. As someone who works and flies aircraft I know this is not the truth.
They also could have been rookies who didnt know the capabilities of their own craft..... Or, the could have been really crappy pilots....... Not all Japanese pilots flew like The Devil of Rabaul......I will however not deny that there were some incidents where P-38's have outturned Zero's, but these were all incidents where the Zero pilots were caught off guard.
Soren said:DerAdlerIstGelandet said:Soren said:DerAdlerIstGelandet said:Again my friend stats dont prove anything, stats are just aproximations and paper can be burned.
There are no miracles in aerodynamics
Certainly not but you and a lot of people seem to think that what they read in a book or on a piece of paper is the only truth. As someone who works and flies aircraft I know this is not the truth.
I fly occasionally myself, and I havent found that the basic aerodynamic facts are wrong. What aerodynamic facts have you come across that you experienced were wrong ?
glider said:I can assure you that my rate of roll is massively less than any powered aircraft you care to mention. However, once in a turn I defy anyone to stick with me but getting there is another matter. So do I count as being manoeverable. I would say no but if you go by turn rate and radius you may say yes. Its a balance.
I am aware that I am not comparing like with like but don't go by W/L and Airofoil. There are loads of things to take into account.
A final plea. When comparing aircraft do it with pilots of equal ability. The P38 may be able to do things with an exceptional pilot but if against another exceptional pilot in a plane like the Zero he will and did come unstuck.
The vast majority of pilots in all airforces were average and/or inexperienced. If trying to do a manouver such as the turn in the P38 described before would kill an average pilot, then I don't think it should count as a comparison.
I wouldnt go so far as to say kill... But the discussion was that the -38 could NEVER turn inside a Zero, which was just plain old WRONG information... And dont forget about the combat flaps that the later -38 model employed....If trying to do a manouver such as the turn in the P38 described before would kill an average pilot, then I don't think it should count as a comparison.
lesofprimus said:Thats the problem with these kind of discussions... Im always considering 2 opposing pilots of excellent pilot skills who know how to combat their aircraft in the most deadly of ways...
Most do not.......
Although, in many circumstances, there are Axis pilots with 80 kills that get shot down by a pilot with 25 combat hours and 3 kills.........
I wouldnt go so far as to say kill... But the discussion was that the -38 could NEVER turn inside a Zero, which was just plain old WRONG information... And dont forget about the combat flaps that the later -38 model employed....If trying to do a manouver such as the turn in the P38 described before would kill an average pilot, then I don't think it should count as a comparison.
lesofprimus said:They also could have been rookies who didnt know the capabilities of their own craft..... Or, the could have been really crappy pilots....... Not all Japanese pilots flew like The Devil of Rabaul......I will however not deny that there were some incidents where P-38's have outturned Zero's, but these were all incidents where the Zero pilots were caught off guard.
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