Is Spitfire relly superior to FW-190?

[mosquitoman]

Is it okay if I chuck some petrol on that touchpaper of yours Glider?

A single engined plane naturally has a smaller wingspan than a twin engined plane (unless it is a la Do 335 but that's still big) simply because the wings have to house the engines. These longer wings would reduce rate of roll, reducing it's manouverability

 

[plan_D]

Doesn't bother me, I'd rather be in the Spitfire. The only way the Lightning would be able to beat a Spitfire is if the Lighting has a seasoned pilot.

It's all well and good having an awesome plane but what's the point if no one is capable of flying it to it's extreme?

 

[mosquitoman]

When it comes down to it, it's the pilot in the plane and who's got the height/sun etc...

 

[wmaxt]

Many pilots complained of going from single engined aircraft into combat with only 20hrs cockpit time in the P-38. This seemed to occur in thr ETO much more than in the Pacific. I've read that in the MTO they figured if you made it through 6 missions you would make it through your tour. If you add a new more complicated aircraft and new to combat you have big problems.

Rings Doc researce site has a comparison between a P-38F and a Fw-190.

I've read that it was both easier and harder to fly than the P-51 so I don't know on that score. With an experianced pilot it was exceptional in the roles it was used especialy the J/L models.

The controls were simplified in later models to make it easier to go from cruise to combat.

A favorite tactic when bounced was to turn into the attacker where the concentrated fire of the P-38 was its most effective.

wmaxt

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Many pilots complained of going from single engined aircraft into combat with only 20hrs cocpit time in the P-38. This seemed to occur in thr ETO much more than in the Pacific. I've read that in the MTO they figured if you made it through 6 missions you would make it through your tour. If you add a new more complicated aircraft and new to combat you have big problems.

I've read that it was both easier and harder to fly than the P-51 so I don't know on that score. With an experianced pilot it was exceptional in the roles it was used especialy the J/L models.

The controls were simplified in later models to make it easier to go from cruise to combat.

A favorite tactic when bounced was to turn into the attacker where the concentrated fire of the P-38 was its most effective.

wmaxt

I had a neighbor who flew P-38s and P-51 in the ETO. He liked the 38 better but said the heating system was poor. He said the mustang was faster more maneuverable but less stable. He flew P-51 C models that were field converted from "Bs". These did not have the ventral in front of the V stab making the aircraft a little unstable.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

The controls were simplified in later models to make it easier to go from cruise to combat.

Lanc mention this earlier, someone explain to me if they read this somewhere in the Pilot's Manual or something?!?!

Has anyone come up with any information on this? I went through My P-38 manual and I could not find anything on cruise to combat configuration (It makes me think of a Star Wars X-wing fighter spreading its wings). In flying high performance aircraft, going to a high speed mode you go full throttle, high propeller pitch, mabe full rich on the mixture (if you're not too high above sea level) monitor temps (oil and coolant) and if you have a supercharger you may have a tach for impeller speed. I can't think of any other thing that the P-38 would do different. Comments?

 

[wmaxt]

I had a neighbor who flew P-38s and P-51 in the ETO. He liked the 38 better but said the heating system was poor. He said the mustang was faster more maneuverable but less stable. He flew P-51 C models that were field converted from "Bs". These did not have the ventral in front of the V stab making the aircraft a little unstable.

That could/probably be true of the early P-38s. When the B/Cs were in service the P-38s were Gs and Hs with a very few early Js. By the late J and L models the P-38 was a better below 15,000ft and at least as good above. In Art Hiedens words " There wasn't anything a P-51 could do a P-38L couldn't do better" of course the P-51B/C was as fast as even the L model P-38 the P-51 also cruised about 65mph faster with better visability. Art flew both in combat and prefered the P-38. The hydralic alerons and extra horse power in the Ls made a lot of difference.

Check out the "Planes and Pilots" web site it has a really good article in 3 chapters about the P-38 in the ETO. http://home.att.net/~C.C.Jordan/index.html

Heat was a problem not completely fixed until the L model and in the tropics getting cool air in was always a problem.

wmaxt

 

[FLYBOYJ]

I had a neighbor who flew P-38s and P-51 in the ETO. He liked the 38 better but said the heating system was poor. He said the mustang was faster more maneuverable but less stable. He flew P-51 C models that were field converted from "Bs". These did not have the ventral in front of the V stab making the aircraft a little unstable.

That could/probably be true of the early P-38s. When the B/Cs were in service the P-38s were Gs and Hs with a very few early Js. By the late J and L models the P-38 was a better below 15,000ft and at least as good above. In Art Hiedens words " There wasn't anything a P-51 could do a P-38L couldn't do better" of course the P-51B/C was as fast as even the L model P-38 the P-51 also cruised about 65mph faster with better visability. Art flew both in combat and prefered the P-38. The hydralic alerons and extra horse power in the Ls made a lot of difference.

Check out the "Planes and Pilots" web site it has a really good article in 3 chapters about the P-38 in the ETO. http://home.att.net/~C.C.Jordan/index.html

Heat was a problem not completely fixed until the L model and in the tropics getting cool air in was always a problem.

wmaxt

My neighbor actually flew P-38J models. He had about 300 hours multi engine time before he even got into the P-38. His comment were similar as you posted!

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Did anyone find info on "Cruise to Combat Configuration?"

 

[cheddar cheese]

I havent found anything yet. Ill keep looking though.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Me neither.

 

[wmaxt]

Did anyone find info on "Cruise to Combat Configuration?"

I will look for a better description but these are some of the steps:

Switch fuel tanks from drop tanks to main (both fuel systems are seperate).
Drop drop tanks.
Mixture controls
Propellar controls
Throttles
Charge guns (early models) if not already done.

The engine controls must be moved in that order to prevent detonation or overspeeding. This was simplafied in later models. Lockheed had better engine controls that would not only have simplafied things but would have given the P-38 better mixture control and faster cruise speeds. The WPB (War Production Board) didn't allow them to be completed and installed.

It's a lot to do in a hurry and with the various controls placed around the cockpit I'd bet it could be exciting when someone is attacking you!

wmaxt

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Did anyone find info on "Cruise to Combat Configuration?"

I will look for a better description but these are some of the steps:

Switch fuel tanks from drop tanks to main (both fuel systems are separate).
Drop drop tanks.
Mixture controls
Propellar controls
Throttles
Charge guns (early models) if not already done.

The engine controls must be moved in that order to prevent detonation of overspeeding.

It's a lot to do in a hurry and with the various controls placed around the cockpit I'd bet it could be exciting when someone is attacking you!

Hmmmm....With the exception of the drop tanks and charging guns, that's not much different when flying any other twin engine airplane, granted that someone is shooting at you, but what you describe there is even typical for most single engine WW2 fighter aircraft as well. For the most part, if that took you 5 or 6 seconds, you took your time. Keep in mind that these steps were probably on a checklist that a properly trained pilot could do in his sleep.

As far as detonation or over speeding, I think this is not an issue considering they were running pretty high octane fuel and you could always come back on the mixture. The P-38 has a constant speed prop (Propeller governor equipped), unless you wind the thing up outside the dive speed envelop, I doubt the engine will over speed.

Thanks for the info, anyone got anything else?

 

[wmaxt]

Did anyone find info on "Cruise to Combat Configuration?"

I will look for a better description but these are some of the steps:

Switch fuel tanks from drop tanks to main (both fuel systems are separate).
Drop drop tanks.
Mixture controls
Propellar controls
Throttles
Charge guns (early models) if not already done.

The engine controls must be moved in that order to prevent detonation of overspeeding.

It's a lot to do in a hurry and with the various controls placed around the cockpit I'd bet it could be exciting when someone is attacking you!

Hmmmm....With the exception of the drop tanks and charging guns, that's not much different when flying any other twin engine airplane, granted that someone is shooting at you, but what you describe there is even typical for most single engine WW2 fighter aircraft as well. For the most part, if that took you 5 or 6 seconds, you took your time. Keep in mind that these steps were probably on a checklist that a properly trained pilot could do in his sleep.

As far as detonation or over speeding, I think this is not an issue considering they were running pretty high octane fuel and you could always come back on the mixture. The P-38 has a constant speed prop (Propeller governor equipped), unless you wind the thing up outside the dive speed envelop, I doubt the engine will over speed.

Thanks for the info, anyone got anything else?

The engine control sequence is right out of the flight manual. Mine is an Avaition Publication so I think it is a collaboration of early and late information.

wmaxt

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Did anyone find info on "Cruise to Combat Configuration?"

I will look for a better description but these are some of the steps:

Switch fuel tanks from drop tanks to main (both fuel systems are separate).
Drop drop tanks.
Mixture controls
Propellar controls
Throttles
Charge guns (early models) if not already done.

The engine controls must be moved in that order to prevent detonation of overspeeding.

It's a lot to do in a hurry and with the various controls placed around the cockpit I'd bet it could be exciting when someone is attacking you!

Hmmmm....With the exception of the drop tanks and charging guns, that's not much different when flying any other twin engine airplane, granted that someone is shooting at you, but what you describe there is even typical for most single engine WW2 fighter aircraft as well. For the most part, if that took you 5 or 6 seconds, you took your time. Keep in mind that these steps were probably on a checklist that a properly trained pilot could do in his sleep.

As far as detonation or over speeding, I think this is not an issue considering they were running pretty high octane fuel and you could always come back on the mixture. The P-38 has a constant speed prop (Propeller governor equipped), unless you wind the thing up outside the dive speed envelop, I doubt the engine will over speed.

Thanks for the info, anyone got anything else?

The engine control sequence is right out of the flight manual. Mine is an Avaition Publication so I think it is a collaboration of early and late information.

wmaxt

Thanks for the reference!

You know, I think I have the same one, but again I could tell you those tasks don't take that long. I'm still wondering about this combat comfiguration?!? It still reminds me of an X wing fighter openeing up its wings

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Most of the controls should be right around the same spot in the cockpit anyhow. I am not familiar with the cockpit of the P-38 but I would think the mixture and propellar controls would be on the throttle and the drop tank jettison and the gun charger would be on the cyclic or yoke, which ever it has.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Most of the controls should be right around the same spot in the cockpit anyhow. I am not familiar with the cockpit of the P-38 but I would think the mixture and propellar controls would be on the throttle and the drop tank jettison and the gun charger would be on the cyclic or yoke, which ever it has.

You're right my friend, everything is within a hand's reach. Throttle, Mixture and Prop control are all next to each other on the left side of the cockpit, I believe the drop tank control is just forward of that and i believe the fuel tank position control is on the center pedestal (I'm writing this from memory)

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

It just makes sense to me and most modern aircraft today are built like that. You control the aircraft with your right hand and you control the throttle and other important controls with the left hand.

The same is for helicopters, the cyclic is between the pilots leg (as it is in most fixed wing fighter aircraft, with the execption of several newer aircraft with the stick on the right) and the collective with throttle controls on the left of the pilot.

 

[cheddar cheese]

Here is a shot of the cockpit of a P-38

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

It still amazes me though that they did not use cyclic type controls rahter than yokes like in this picture. I find that an aircraft is more easier to control with a cyclic then with a yoke.