It's May 1939 and Canadian Car and Foundry, instead of the Hurricane, what's your pick?

Admiral Beez · Sep 30, 2020

jetcal1 said:
I am certainly suggesting that a factory producing engines was possible. (Look at the Dodge and Studebaker engine plants in Chicago.) The talent was already resident to assemble the engines via Pratt Whitney Canada. However, I agree that Bristol would have had to have been involved and enthusiastic because the Lord running the Shadow factories program for the first few years was so bad he got booted by Neville Chamberlain

True. We need Lord Beaverbook or another strong Canadian to rattle things.

jetcal1 · Oct 7, 2020

Admiral Beez said:
True. We need Lord Beaverbook or another strong Canadian to rattle things.

I'm currently reading "The Fairey Battle: A Reassessment of its RAF Career" and frankly, I'm not sure based on the description of the Air Staff by Mr. Baughen that the Air Staff could make up its mind. Even the decision to replace the Blenheim was muddled about until 1940. I guess if nothing else, start the factory for the Centaurus and find the airframe later.

Shortround6 · Oct 7, 2020

jetcal1 said:
. I guess if nothing else, start the factory for the Centaurus and find the airframe later.

From wiki, correction welcome.

"Bristol maintained the Centaurus from type-testing in 1938, but production did not start until 1942, owing to the need to get the Hercules into production and improve the reliability of the entire engine line.[1] Nor was there any real need for the larger engine at this early point in the war, when most military aircraft designs were intended to mount engines around 1,000 hp. The Hercules's approximately 1,500 hp was better suited to the existing airframes."

Building a factory for an engine that won't really exist for another 2 years or more seems like a waste of effort, no matter how good the 1943-44 airplane might be.

jetcal1 · Oct 8, 2020

Shortround6 said:
From wiki, correction welcome.
Building a factory for an engine that won't really exist for another 2 years or more seems like a waste of effort, no matter how good the 1943-44 airplane might be.

I respectfully beg to differ and cite the Kansas City R4360 plant and the Chicago R3350 Plant as examples. (Although the Chicago plant also produced other CW engines as well. It was primarily for the R3350.)

fastmongrel · Oct 8, 2020

They should build this

I have done all the hard work

jetcal1 · Oct 8, 2020

fastmongrel said:
They should build this
View attachment 597527
I have done all the hard work

Hey, great idea! That's a P-40 with a Taurus engine, isn't it?

Shortround6 · Oct 8, 2020

P&W Kansas city was built to make R-2800s, the R-4360s came later.

I don't believe Wright had a Chicago plant. They did have one in or near Cincinnati. Built a lot of R-2600s before building R-3350s.

The Centourus first ran in 1938 but it wasn't fully sorted out until 1942.

Bristol had quite a bit of trouble making any of their sleeve valve engines in quantity in 1939-40 making any idea of making said engine/s in a remote location location something of a gamble.

Admiral Beez · Oct 9, 2020

fastmongrel said:
They should build this
View attachment 597527
I have done all the hard work

Absolutely! The P-36/P-40 is essentially the USA's Hawker Hurricane, the all purpose tough as sh#t go anywhere fighter.

jetcal1 said:
Hey, great idea! That's a P-40 with a Taurus engine, isn't it?

No need if making this Hawk in Canada. The Curtiss engine factory is a one day drive from CC&F's factory.

Give the Hawk the later Wildcat's dual-stage supercharger and you've got something to send to ~~Malaya and~~ India.
Edit there, as we'll not have a dual stage supercharger in time for Malaya. So, Curtiss Hawks made in Canada (or elsewhere) will need to make due with the Wright or P&W engines fitted to the early Wildcats. Maybe your Taurus idea isn't so bad. We can still get Canadian Hawks with the available engines to Malaya in time to serve alongside the Buffaloes, but I suspect many will go to Russia, as did many of CC&F's Hurricanes i believe.

Shortround6 · Oct 9, 2020

Admiral Beez said:
Give the Hawk the later Wildcat's dual-stage supercharger and you've got something to send to Malaya and India.

Back to this crap again?

A, there aren't a whole lot of two stage R-1830s to go around in 1940-41 and 42.
B, the two stage R-1830 wasn't fully sorted out even the summer of 1941.
C, The two stage supercharger is not an add on device you can get at the local hot rod store and bolt into any plane that had an R-1830 engine.

the photo shows the left intercooler which exhausted the cooling air into the wheel well. There was another intercooler on the other side.

P & W did mount one in a P-40 airframe. They normally flew it at a gross weight of 7107lbs, no gun, no armor, no self sealing fuel tanks. They estimated it would gross 8,300lbs with full military equipment. I don't know if that included drop tank or what the armament fit was (six .50s?). The engine did work well and this plane wound up being the 4th fastest P-40 ever built, only the P-40Qs were faster.
There are a number of pictures of it in other threads.

Admiral Beez · Oct 10, 2020

fastmongrel said:
They should build this
View attachment 597527
I have done all the hard work

Just add folding wings and the FAA has their Sea Gladiator replacement.

Admiral Beez · Oct 10, 2020

HARDLYDANK said:
The only viable plane I can really think of is the P-36. The P-40 came too late, so did Fulmar, Gladiator is an option I guess

What about the Spitfire? Is it on the cutting edge of production tech?

SaparotRob · Oct 10, 2020

Would the Spitfire shortage made its use by the FAA a problem?

tomo pauk · Oct 10, 2020

Admiral Beez said:
What about the Spitfire? Is it on the cutting edge of production tech?

It was low-tech, production wise (tough not as low-tech as Hurricane), because it's ribs (in wings) and formers (in fuselage) were built-up pieces, not single pieces. Added horrendously to the manufacturing time. Similar flaw was with Italian fighters.
P-36/40, Typhoon, Bf 109, P-51 etc. have had single-piece ribs - a far better choice for a mass-produced aircraft.

jetcal1 · Oct 11, 2020

Shortround6 said:
P&W Kansas city was built to make R-2800s, the R-4360s came later.

I don't believe Wright had a Chicago plant. They did have one in or near Cincinnati. Built a lot of R-2600s before building R-3350s.

The Centaurus first ran in 1938 but it wasn't fully sorted out until 1942.

Bristol had quite a bit of trouble making any of their sleeve valve engines in quantity in 1939-40 making any idea of making said engine/s in a remote location location something of a gamble.

Hi SR6,
The engine plant I am referring to was the "Chicago" (Cicero) Dodge Engine Plant. I understand and am not in total disagreement about the added difficulties of a solving problems from a remote location. However, PWA was available in Canada, the Hartford team was working still working sleeve valves. Seconding one or two engineers and leaving the other team members in England to concentrate on their design/engineering/production specialties while the plant was being built in Canada could have been a game changer. Bristol had familiarity with remote licensed operations, (Remember they allowed license manufacturing of their engines in Poland.

It's May 1939 and Canadian Car and Foundry, instead of the Hurricane, what's your pick?

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