davebender
1st Lieutenant
That depends on how fast the Jack was. If the published speed of 370mph is correct then it was surpassed by the 1941 Me-109F and hopelessly obsolete by 1944. But is that max speed correct?
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well this is all pretty interesting guys but my original thought still remains: compared to the western european fighters, can the Jack compete?
reinrich in WWII Aircraft Performance the are test and cards on F-6F5 and in none i can see a 400 mph speed
Here's the F6F-3 indicating 391 mph (close to 400)
Page 556, AHT by Dean, the F6F5 could touch 400 mph at 20000 feet with combat power. Linnekin, page 67, "80 Knots to Mach Two," "The F6F5 was a legitimate 400 mph airplane at altitude." "The Great Book of WW2 Airplanes" page 628, in a comparison between the F6F5, F4U1D and the Zeke 52, the top speed attained by the F6F5 was 409 mph at 21600 feet.
The performance envelope is what's important here fellers, not the apex test figures. Look up Wright-Patterson flight records for 45-46 they tested all the Japanese and German captured types, and any Soviet aircraft they could get their hands on as it so happens but that was down at the back hangars with nods and tarps over them, not that anyone would take much more notice of anything other than the German jets and Doras, they did tons of flying in those.
The general consensus by Wright-Patterson was that all the late war Japanese aircraft, specifically J2M3, N1J2, Ki-44, Ki-84, Ki-100 and even Ki-61 all had surprisingly similar performance. Whilst they had limited altitude performance, they were all contemporary with or superior to Allied aircraft specifically the P-51D and P-47D based at Okinawa and Iwo Jima and F6F-4 and Sea Spitfire fighters at up to medium combat heights. At 3000 metres the combat report for a N1J2 runway attack at Okinawa was that local fighters on redirect could not even catch them at this height despite beginning the chase within eyeshot of the enemy formation.
The flight tests at Wright-Patterson not only confirmed this report of low-medium altitude superiority particularly of the N1J2 and Ki-84 types, but also states that the Japanese based Intelligence on these aircraft was understated due to shocking operating and maintenance conditions and general organisational disarray.
However, at altitudes exceeding 5500 metres all the Japanese aircraft were inferior to US-Allied contemporaries, except the J2M5 of which only dozens were ever built. Most Raidens were the J2M3 which has poor altitude performance as per all other Japanese fighters. They all run out of steam by 6000m, whilst US aircraft in the theatre pull strong at 7000m and upwards.
Now the important thing to consider here is that maximum level speed ratings describe altitude, not speed performance per se. Altitude. It says how much you can zoom climb or recover or what your cruise characteristics are like, how much your plane likes going upwards, stuff like that. The Ki-84 was faster than any Allied fighter at its design operational altitude, despite having a much lower maximum level speed rating, which again is a reflection of throttle heights moreso.
Think of it like pole racing versus altitude records. Set an altitude record and you have to fly fast just to stay up. Your IAS is actually very low, your TAS is very high. You seem to be going very slow, you just really go fast only because you're so high.
A pole racer accelerates with sheer grunt in thick air like butter off a hot knife. It will outdo the IAS of the altitude record plane easily, but it isn't likely to match its TAS.
Still, it is a faster plane. That's like a Ki-84 to a Mustang at 3000 metres. Although...the way I understand only the N1J2 and Ki-84 had advantage, the others were just contemporary, ie. highly competitive and dependent upon pilot skill alone against late war Allied fighters in the theatre. But again all tended to drop off performance capabilities above 5500m or thereabouts. Mustangs like to roam at 6-7000m normally, the P-47 is best above 6000m, etc. The F4U-4 is tremendous at all heights, but the F4U-1 gets sluggish low and slow. And combat over the islands ranged from ground height to 3500m typically.
Sorry I'm confused...it's been 20yrs since I had flight training or flew a plane. I thought Vmax was your maximum in a shallow dive. Maximum level speed tends to be lower, Vmax is more like partway to VNE. Modern jet fighter manufacturers rate Vmax in an altitude dip, there's guidelines, you can lose something like 2500 metres establishing Vmax or something like that. One of you guys should know, hence why I'm talking here.
Someone put me right?