Off topic, but there is a goodthread on gunship B25s with lots of photos on WIX
Warbird Information Exchange • View topic - B-25D Gunship Mods
Warbird Information Exchange • View topic - B-25D Gunship Mods
Japanese fighters' performance: what is the verdict?
- Thread starter tomo pauk
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GregP
Major
Shortround,
That's not what one of his his former crewmen said in 1982 ... but time may have faded a memory, I wasn't there.
That's not what one of his his former crewmen said in 1982 ... but time may have faded a memory, I wasn't there.
vinnye
Senior Airman
The Ki 84 was a very good fighter. I found this on Wiki :
It was the Nakajima Ha-45 radial powerplant that gave the Hayate its high speed and prowess in combat. Derived from the Homare engine common to many Japanese aircraft, the Hayate used a direct-injection version of the engine, using water injection to aid the supercharger in giving the Ki-84 a rated 1,491 kW (2,000 hp) at takeoff. This combination—in theory, at least—gave it a climb rate and top speed roughly competitive with the top Allied fighters. Initial Hayate testing at Tachikawa in early summer 1943 saw test pilot Lieutenant Funabashi reach a maximum level airspeed of 624 km/h (387 mph) in the second prototype. After the war, a late-production, captured example was tested in the US with high octane fuel, and achieved a speed of 687 km/h (426 mph).
It did also say that the engines were high maintainance, and spares etc wewre a big issue in the reliability of these aircraft.
I also like the Ki 100 - arrived a bit late to make much difference.
It was the Nakajima Ha-45 radial powerplant that gave the Hayate its high speed and prowess in combat. Derived from the Homare engine common to many Japanese aircraft, the Hayate used a direct-injection version of the engine, using water injection to aid the supercharger in giving the Ki-84 a rated 1,491 kW (2,000 hp) at takeoff. This combination—in theory, at least—gave it a climb rate and top speed roughly competitive with the top Allied fighters. Initial Hayate testing at Tachikawa in early summer 1943 saw test pilot Lieutenant Funabashi reach a maximum level airspeed of 624 km/h (387 mph) in the second prototype. After the war, a late-production, captured example was tested in the US with high octane fuel, and achieved a speed of 687 km/h (426 mph).
It did also say that the engines were high maintainance, and spares etc wewre a big issue in the reliability of these aircraft.
I also like the Ki 100 - arrived a bit late to make much difference.
Ki-100
I never understood how the Ki-100 could be regarded as such a great fighter.
Sure its manoeuverabilitiy was beyond compare also to its japanese siblings as some sources say.
And its power to weight ratio was very good.
But it was so slow. The speed difference against the latest US fighters leaves much to be desired.
But this is the case with other japanese fighters as well, so it's nothing special.
Somewhere it was stated that it could dive with a Mustang. This is not very credible.
I don't how it could fight the faster BnZ fighters effectively as these are giving the fighting terms.
But it boasted great handling and easyness to fly and thus gave a good crate for rookie pilots to manage.
Was it really this good or just an overrated aircraft?
I tend to the latter.
But maybe someone knows better.
I never understood how the Ki-100 could be regarded as such a great fighter.
Sure its manoeuverabilitiy was beyond compare also to its japanese siblings as some sources say.
And its power to weight ratio was very good.
But it was so slow. The speed difference against the latest US fighters leaves much to be desired.
But this is the case with other japanese fighters as well, so it's nothing special.
Somewhere it was stated that it could dive with a Mustang. This is not very credible.
I don't how it could fight the faster BnZ fighters effectively as these are giving the fighting terms.
But it boasted great handling and easyness to fly and thus gave a good crate for rookie pilots to manage.
Was it really this good or just an overrated aircraft?
I tend to the latter.
But maybe someone knows better.
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vinnye
Senior Airman
From Wiki :
An overall assessment of the effectiveness of the Ki-100 rated it highly in agility, and a well-handled Ki-100 was able to outmanoeuvre any American fighter, including the formidable P-51D Mustangs and the P-47N Thunderbolts which were escorting the B-29 raids over Japan by that time, and was comparable in speed, especially at medium altitudes. In the hands of an experienced pilot, the Ki-100 was a deadly opponent and, together with the Army's Ki-84 and the Navy's Kawanishi N1K-J, the only other Japanese fighters being able to defeat the latest Allied types.
That suggests it was a decent fighter.
An overall assessment of the effectiveness of the Ki-100 rated it highly in agility, and a well-handled Ki-100 was able to outmanoeuvre any American fighter, including the formidable P-51D Mustangs and the P-47N Thunderbolts which were escorting the B-29 raids over Japan by that time, and was comparable in speed, especially at medium altitudes. In the hands of an experienced pilot, the Ki-100 was a deadly opponent and, together with the Army's Ki-84 and the Navy's Kawanishi N1K-J, the only other Japanese fighters being able to defeat the latest Allied types.
That suggests it was a decent fighter.
The 75mm cannon or howitzer had a recoil mechanism built in, that's why it could be fired so fast on the ground, up to every other second with a good crew, they didn't have to reaim the cannon after each shot. Nobody would try to mount any cannon of that size solid, it recoils almost a foot.
Surely their talking about the little bit of vibration left over from the recoil operation, easily absorbed by the gun carriage and trail on the ground based weapon
Surely their talking about the little bit of vibration left over from the recoil operation, easily absorbed by the gun carriage and trail on the ground based weapon
One should take Wikipedia with a grain of salt. That same article states that the Ki-100 could dive with the Mustang what is highly unlikely let alone impossible as the Mustang is far more aeordynamic and much heavier.
The Ki-100 did feature excellent and handling and was so easy to fly that rookie pilots had hardly problems to adapt in contrast to other fighters.
The Ki-100 might be fought against using the Thach weave e.g., why should it be not.
I do believe that the trio of best japanese fighters were superior to the Hellcat and maybe equal to the Corsair, at least to some versions of it.
The Ki-100 did feature excellent and handling and was so easy to fly that rookie pilots had hardly problems to adapt in contrast to other fighters.
The Ki-100 might be fought against using the Thach weave e.g., why should it be not.
I do believe that the trio of best japanese fighters were superior to the Hellcat and maybe equal to the Corsair, at least to some versions of it.
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In terms of basic performance, the Ki-100 was not much different from the Bf 109 E. It was more agile however, and I suspect the controls in the dive were better. It is quiet shocking to imaginate a Bf 109 E or a Spit Mk I flying in 1945, isn't? Yes, and all the entusiasm for the Ki-100 reflects practically that.
It does mean the plane was useless? No, it was an improvement over the Hayabusa while more advanced designs such as the Ki-84 and Ki-87 were not present in adequated numbers, specially regarding diving speed and engine realiability (compared to the Ki-84). Being used in the defensive role and flown by an adequately trained pilot, the Ki-100 could (and did) cause some surprises to the enemy.
It does mean the plane was useless? No, it was an improvement over the Hayabusa while more advanced designs such as the Ki-84 and Ki-87 were not present in adequated numbers, specially regarding diving speed and engine realiability (compared to the Ki-84). Being used in the defensive role and flown by an adequately trained pilot, the Ki-100 could (and did) cause some surprises to the enemy.
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Shortround6
Major General
A lot of these things are relative and in the case of diving very few planes reached their upper limits in a dive in combat. Most planes were near uncontrollable near their limiting speed in a dive.
Take the Mustang vs a Zero or Ki 43. Neither could dive for crap. If they attempted to escape by diving the P-51 could catch them with ease and it a short period of time. Or if the Mustang wanted to escape it could dive away and be pretty sure they couldn't follow.
The Ki 100 Might not dive as well as the Mustang but compared to the Zero or Ki 43 if it dove away it will take the Mustang longer to catch it and involve a greater loss of altitude. Likewise if the Mustang wants to dive away it depends on the initial separation. He will out dive the Ki 100 but perhaps not until the Ki 100 gets into position for one burst?
AS far as "In terms of basic performance, the Ki-100 was not much different from the Bf 109 E. It was more agile however, and I suspect the controls in the dive were better. It is quiet shocking to imaginate a Bf 109 E or a Spit Mk I flying in 1945, isn't? Yes, and all the entusiasm for the Ki-100 reflects practically that."
Find a Bf 109E that can do 580kph at 6000 meters or better yet one that can do 535kph at 10,000 meters. Even if that one is not quite right it is about the speed a 109E could do at 7600 meters. Ki 100 has a lot more firepower too.
Take the Mustang vs a Zero or Ki 43. Neither could dive for crap. If they attempted to escape by diving the P-51 could catch them with ease and it a short period of time. Or if the Mustang wanted to escape it could dive away and be pretty sure they couldn't follow.
The Ki 100 Might not dive as well as the Mustang but compared to the Zero or Ki 43 if it dove away it will take the Mustang longer to catch it and involve a greater loss of altitude. Likewise if the Mustang wants to dive away it depends on the initial separation. He will out dive the Ki 100 but perhaps not until the Ki 100 gets into position for one burst?
AS far as "In terms of basic performance, the Ki-100 was not much different from the Bf 109 E. It was more agile however, and I suspect the controls in the dive were better. It is quiet shocking to imaginate a Bf 109 E or a Spit Mk I flying in 1945, isn't? Yes, and all the entusiasm for the Ki-100 reflects practically that."
Find a Bf 109E that can do 580kph at 6000 meters or better yet one that can do 535kph at 10,000 meters. Even if that one is not quite right it is about the speed a 109E could do at 7600 meters. Ki 100 has a lot more firepower too.
