You have quoted my response to Dan Fahey, discussing this USAAF fighter victories Nothing to do with aces.
Where did I suggest this?
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
Ok Stig1207, so lets talk about this disparity in numbers, as it pertains to Aces.
S
So I would say this is evidence (not proof but evidence) that your suggestion that British Tomahawk Aces (or British Aces flying any other aircraft) in the Western Desert weren't actually Aces is basically groundless.
I don't think that the over claiming was any higher than anywhere else. in the war. Here are the figures from Hurricanes Over the Sands, vol 1.
30 sqd 26 claims 15-20 verified post war 60-80%
33 Sqd 213 claims 60% verified
73 Sqd 117 claims 65-75% verified
80 Sqd 195 claims 50% verified
Over all average is above 50% which is not too bad.
You have quoted my response to Dan Fahey, discussing this USAAF fighter victories Nothing to do with aces.
Where did I suggest this?
I don't think that the overclaiming was higher than anywhere else, but nor was it lower. My assertion was merely that when assessing how successful a particular aircraft was, in this case the Tomahawk, that if the number of victories is not high, a couple of hundred,
then dividing them with the usual rate of overclaiming of 2-3,
then the actual success is rather less than the percieved.
I would love to see a chart, if someone could provide it, showing a breakdown of speed and climb at three altitudes (sea level, 10,000 ft, 25,000 ft) for the following:
Spit Va - 9 lbs boost
Spit Vb - 9 lbs boost
Spit Vb - 12 lbs boost
Spit Vb - 16 lbs boost
Spit VC / 4 - 9 lbs boost
Spit VC / 2 - 9 lbs boost
Spit VC / 4 - 12 lbs boost
Spit VC / 2 - 12 lbs boost
Spit VC / 2 LF - 12 lbs boost
Spit VC / 2 - 16 lbs boost
Spit VC / 2 LF - 16 lbs boost
Am I missing something - cannon-armed Spitfire V making more than 380 mph?
Basically what we're lookin' at ...
View attachment 563921
Spitfire Vc (Merlin 45) +9, +12 and +16 boost
Spitfire Vc (Merlin 46) +9, +12 and +16 boost
Spitfire Vc (Merlin 45M) +18 boost
View attachment 563922
Spitfire Vc (Merlin 45) +9 boost 2850 rpm
Spitfire Vc (Merlin 45) +12 boost 3000 rpm
Spitfire Vc (Merlin 45M) +18 boost 3000 rpm
When testing the universal wing on a MkVc it did 374 mph with 8 brownings, 374 with 4 Hispano's, that was with 9 psi boost.
Basically what we're lookin' at ...
View attachment 563921
Spitfire Vc (Merlin 45) +9, +12 and +16 boost
Spitfire Vc (Merlin 46) +9, +12 and +16 boost
Spitfire Vc (Merlin 45M) +18 boost
We also have a test where it did 359 on +9 psi here; 369 mph at 13000 ft on +16 psi boost.
The fit & finish problems surfacing out in 1942?
I'd still like to know where the 52mph the Darwin MkV's lost went?.
I noted the RAAF had 365 mph at 22,000 feet for a tropical Spitfire Vc (Merlin 46) from NAA A11093: 452/A58
The figures I used are from data sheets and correspondence between big wigs discussing the new clipped-and-cropped Spitfires. They're more to illustrate the differences between the three engines/boost levels than to show exactly what airframe No. XYYYY did.
You would get a variation of 5 mph between 4 planes in the same squadron so 370+ is a fair number.
The best they got was 332mph, the Zero they tested hit 331.
I'm not talking about a single airframe, but about whole Spitfire V series with Merlin 46 engine - of seven aircraft listed at the table I've linked, neither was able to make 370 mph between 20000 and 22600 ft, let alone going beyond 380. The ones outfitted with float-type carb were barely making 360 mph.
You have to take into consideration that there really wasn't a ''standard'' MkV, they had three different engines, three different boost ratings, two different rev limits, two different exhaust systems, about four different configurations, both float and injector carbs, fared and unfared mirrors, fixed and whip aerials and by 43 they were getting tired, by 44 they were worn out. When you add a few mph with fishtails and a injector carb then subtract a few from poor paint finish and a fixed aerial there's big differences between them.
I'm not talking about a single airframe, but about whole Spitfire V series with Merlin 46 engine - of seven aircraft listed at the table I've linked, neither was able to make 370 mph between 20000 and 22600 ft, let alone going beyond 380. The ones outfitted with float-type carb were barely making 360 mph.