claidemore
Senior Airman
Me262 test pilot Hans Fay maintained that the Me262 had "poor maneuverability", though he also said it turned better at high speeds than at low. He also said it had good response to ailerons at all speeds. Obviously those comments are pretty open to interpretation!
The only account I have read of an Me262 engaging in a turn fight was against Ivan Khozedub, and that resulted in Khozedub shooting down the 262. There may be others, but I haven't read them.
I calculate a turn radius of 4930 ft and time of 46 seconds at 450 mph pulling about 3 G in a Me262. Sustained turn rate at this speed will be about 6.5 degrees per second according to the charts posted earlier. A Spit or Mustang, 350 mph, @ 3G, radius is 2980 feet and time of 36 seconds and could have a sustained turn rate of about 8 degrees per second at that speed. The prop fighter can definately outturn a jet fighter by not trying to match it's speed, and staying inside the jets turn. Note: it takes the prop fighter 1.5 to 2 seconds to relax it's turn and 'cut across the circle' to close to firing range in that scenario, albeit a fairly short firing time given the speed difference.
There is a proplem with claiming a dogfight advantage in a plane because it retains speed better in a turn. IF both planes try to stay at 400mph, the jet is going to have an advantage, but what prop pilot is going to try to keep his speed up while a jet is closing on his tail? It's just not going to happen in the real world, he's going to increase his turn, and because he can lose speed quicker (more drag), he will turn tighter, denying the jet a firing solution.
The jet has an enormous tactical advantage with its superior speed, and will use that to dictate an energy fight, rather than an 'angles' or turning fight.
As for climb, Soren posted a chart here:
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/me-262-performance-12011.html
-which shows projected climb times for a 004C Jumo engine (more powerful than the 004B engines used in production 262s). It shows a climb time to 10 k at full weight of 19minutes, and 10 minutes at reduced weight. Real operational weight would be somewhere between those two figures, and climb rate of an operational 004B engined 262 would be a bit lower. For arguments sake, even if we use the data for the 004C, the climb rate is at best only at par with contemporary prop fighters and fully loaded, it's not as good.
However, the 262 would zoom climb better due to it's high speed, and to be fair, 'best climbing speed' was faster. In essence, it might not gain altitude on a pursuing Mustang or Spitfire, but would gain distance during the climb. (this is backed up by combat reports against 262's, they usually escaped in level flight or shallow dive) Either way, the prop fighter isn't going to catch it.
The Me262 was a very good fighter, with a kill ratio of 5-1 (maybe 3-1 if you correct for overclaiming). But lets put the credit for that success where it belongs, vastly superior speed and firepower, not dogfighting ability.
The only account I have read of an Me262 engaging in a turn fight was against Ivan Khozedub, and that resulted in Khozedub shooting down the 262. There may be others, but I haven't read them.
I calculate a turn radius of 4930 ft and time of 46 seconds at 450 mph pulling about 3 G in a Me262. Sustained turn rate at this speed will be about 6.5 degrees per second according to the charts posted earlier. A Spit or Mustang, 350 mph, @ 3G, radius is 2980 feet and time of 36 seconds and could have a sustained turn rate of about 8 degrees per second at that speed. The prop fighter can definately outturn a jet fighter by not trying to match it's speed, and staying inside the jets turn. Note: it takes the prop fighter 1.5 to 2 seconds to relax it's turn and 'cut across the circle' to close to firing range in that scenario, albeit a fairly short firing time given the speed difference.
There is a proplem with claiming a dogfight advantage in a plane because it retains speed better in a turn. IF both planes try to stay at 400mph, the jet is going to have an advantage, but what prop pilot is going to try to keep his speed up while a jet is closing on his tail? It's just not going to happen in the real world, he's going to increase his turn, and because he can lose speed quicker (more drag), he will turn tighter, denying the jet a firing solution.
The jet has an enormous tactical advantage with its superior speed, and will use that to dictate an energy fight, rather than an 'angles' or turning fight.
As for climb, Soren posted a chart here:
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/me-262-performance-12011.html
-which shows projected climb times for a 004C Jumo engine (more powerful than the 004B engines used in production 262s). It shows a climb time to 10 k at full weight of 19minutes, and 10 minutes at reduced weight. Real operational weight would be somewhere between those two figures, and climb rate of an operational 004B engined 262 would be a bit lower. For arguments sake, even if we use the data for the 004C, the climb rate is at best only at par with contemporary prop fighters and fully loaded, it's not as good.
However, the 262 would zoom climb better due to it's high speed, and to be fair, 'best climbing speed' was faster. In essence, it might not gain altitude on a pursuing Mustang or Spitfire, but would gain distance during the climb. (this is backed up by combat reports against 262's, they usually escaped in level flight or shallow dive) Either way, the prop fighter isn't going to catch it.
The Me262 was a very good fighter, with a kill ratio of 5-1 (maybe 3-1 if you correct for overclaiming). But lets put the credit for that success where it belongs, vastly superior speed and firepower, not dogfighting ability.