FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Who said that's a major issue? Friendly fire from where? What if vectors were achieved via AWACS?
I think during the Gulf war BVR kills made up over 30% of the kills.
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Who said that's a major issue? Friendly fire from where? What if vectors were achieved via AWACS?What good is BVR if the pilot must have a visual to avoid friendly fire? He must still fly to the merge.
All I can say to that is if Boyd's desires had won, there would have been a lot more dead USAF/USN/USMC fighter pilots in Desert Storm... and the CAS & ground strikes would not have been as numerous or effective.Acheron:
I read & reread this book about John Boyd several times & each time I laughed & at the same time learned something new. The book is written as a combination of biography of Boyd & the processes & theories that led up to OODA Loop, the design and genesis of the F-16. The F-17/18 only won the Naval contract due to its twin engines, not the performance.
Just a quick edit:
At the time, the navy was more concerned with the second engine giving the pilot that extra reliability of bringing him back to home (carrier).
True, the Hornet, as it was later to be called, was an excellent maneuvering combat aircraft in its own right ( my son served as plane captain on maintaining the F-18's) but the F-16 was designed as a pure clean-sheet light weight aircraft, much like Ed Heinemann's Douglas A-4 Skyhawk.
It absolutely infuriated John to see this pure highly maneuvering fighter being loaded down with perks from add-ons such as conformal tanks, hard points ( ground pounders were for A-10's) & more.
He was pure genius & way ahead of his time. He studied Sun Tzu's Art of War & did years of study to come up with innovative concepts that were applied to air combat maneuvering that earned both admiration & fear among the "blue suitors" in the Pentagon.
While flying F-100's & instructing his students in the art of aerial combat, he was known among his peers as "40-second Boyd." This was because he would allow his students get in his six o'clock position & they had three minutes to shoot him down. In less than 30-40 seconds before his students even realized where he was, Boyd was already in their six calling over the radio "Guns, guns, guns" meaning they were already shot down.
I wouldn't be surprised if the latest movie Top Gun, Maverick, had taken up some of his tactics in humbling his students to end up doing push ups.
He absolutely feared no one. It was a common sight at the Pentagon to see John poking his fingers into the chests of admirals & generals alike shouting in their faces why they were wrong at the same time spitting out left over food from his mouth.
Whenever they saw John walking down the halls, everyone turned around & went into hiding.
He also hung up on (slammed down the phone) the Chief of Naval Operations because John told him his briefings in the Art of War could not be condensed to 2 hours from his 5-8 hour normal presentation.
Dick Cheney was one of his admirers & followed Boyd's examples.
I absolutely encourage everyone to get this book:" Boyd, The Fighter Pilot Who Changed the Art of War."
I promise you, you won't be disappointed.
To those people who bad-mouthed John, in my humble opinion, they fall into the same category of election deniers (meaning they don't know "stuff" what they're talking about) & will believe whatever they want regardless of the truth.
Cheers & Happy New Year,
Gary
Develop technologies/techniques/procedures to allow pilots to engage beyond BVR. You cannot say cannons are useless, because the pilot has to fly within saber-range anyway to slap the enemy pilot with his glove to initiate combat.What good is BVR if the pilot must have a visual to avoid friendly fire? He must still fly to the merge.
ROE's restricted BVR combat and the sparrow missile was exactly the most reliable tool in the shed. I think only a small percentage of kills in VN were accomplished with a gun.Develop technologies/techniques/procedures to allow pilots to engage beyond BVR. You cannot say cannons are useless, because the pilot has to fly within saber-range anyway to slap the enemy pilot with his glove to initiate combat.
Also note, in Vietnam, the US had the option to fight BVR, the enemy did not. This changed, if you optimize the USAF/USN to fight with cannons or short-range missiles, it will suffer badly when fighting an enemy that fights BVR.
I believe LazerPig had an example in another vidoe, Iran-Iraq war, Iraq had the better pilots, yet they couldn't do much in their MiGs against F-14s who might as well have attacked from Narnia.
A good example is Tzu's doctrine. It is more having to do deal with strategy than any weapons, be they are bows & arrows, BVRs, spears, missiles, guns or even guided bombs. All of which are useless, unless they're implemented with strategy & purpose. Tzu often advocated trying to negotiate or even retreat until the situation changes where the use of force will yield maximum results with minimal casualties.
The guns on the F-8 would break under G loading, I think only 2 kills were gun only, maybe two more were missile and gun, the rest AIM-9. The A-1 Skydraiders had a couple of cannon kills, and I think Don Kilgus's F-100 guns kill was finally verified. The F-105 has the most gun kills on the US side credited with something like 24 MiGs.ROE's restricted BVR combat and the sparrow missile was exactly the most reliable tool in the shed. I think only a small percentage of kills in VN were accomplished with a gun.
And I think those were all the gun kills out of the 196 MiGs shot down during Viet Nam by th USN and USAF. So about 11/12%?The guns on the F-8 would break under G loading, I think only 2 kills were gun only, maybe two more were missile and gun, the rest AIM-9. The A-1 Skydraiders had a couple of cannon kills, and I think Don Kilgus's F-100 guns kill was finally verified. The F-105 has the most gun kills on the US side credited with something like 24 MiGs.
Exactly what book are you referring to?Judging from several responses regarding Boyd's doctrine, it appears his book,