Ju 87 dive brakes and fighter capabilities

Discussion in 'Weapons Systems Tech.' started by black out, Aug 16, 2007.

  1. black out

    black out New Member

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    Hello everyone, Im new and I bet there are some stuka fans here. My question would be the reason of the removal of the dive brakes of the late model stukas (d7, d8). I believe those were used for divebombing at night so why remove the brakes for standard dive bombing from relatively high altitude? Also im very intersted in the usage of late stukas in1944-45 in the western front(ive read there wasnt any but i speculate they might have been used as fighter bombers as a last resort). And also could the late stukas shoot down other slow planes with 20 mm for example obselete planes in the eastern front or even "dogfight" with an il 2 sturmovik or alike?Thank you for any input on the questions.
     
  2. Aussie1001

    Aussie1001 Member

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    i am fairly sure that the last real use that the '87 found was in russia as a tank buster ?
     
  3. SoD Stitch

    SoD Stitch Banned

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    Yeah, as Aussie said, the Ju 87 was pretty much outclassed by anything else in the air by '44; the only time the Stuka could fly safely was when the LW had complete air dominance, which wasn't happening very often by then. The last time the Stuka was able to fly fight without getting mauled was probably '43 on the Eastern Front. Yes, they were used very effectively early on as a tank-buster on the Eastern Front, particularly by Hans Ulrich Rudel, but the 37mm underwing cannon pods made it's lackluster performance even worse than it already was.

    By '45 I don't think there were any -87's flying operational missions anywhere, Eastern Front or Western Front, and they had all been relegated to liason training duties where they wouldn't get shot down.
     
  4. Denniss

    Denniss Active Member

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    Dive brakes were removed with the D-5 version as they were almost always used as ground attack instead of dive bombing. Ju 87 were used to the end of the war but in the last year almost always in the night. Allied night fighters had problems with these beasts, it was not easy for them to fly slow enough to detect, locate and to destroy them as they would often overshoot them.
     
  5. Aussie1001

    Aussie1001 Member

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    Ok thanks for that stitch and Denniss, i wasn't sure....
     
  6. Heinz

    Heinz Active Member

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    The 87 was outclassed by the Battle Of Britain.
    tank busting was their last major role.

    I actually read somewhere that 'pods' were designed to sit on the wings to carry extra people when moving airfields. Something along those lines Im not sure exactly but it sat where the wings bent.
     
  7. Graeme

    Graeme Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, you're right Heinz, the Junkers Ju 87D-3 with two-seat passenger pods.

    [​IMG]

    Looks a lot more comfortable than this 'rapid evacuation' pod for critically wounded soldiers, under a P-38 wing.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. black out

    black out New Member

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    Thanks for the input guys, but when Germany sill had air superiority in the east for example could the stuka w 20 mm cannons be used as fighter bomber? Too slow? How about against some of the obselete russian planes or the slow but well armored sturmovik? Also I think I saw a documentary where when the allies advanced closer and closer to Berlin some stukas that still werent destroyed tried to destroy a bridge to stop the advance. Im aware that at that time me 262s jabos and ardo 234 were used for ground attack (Ardennes offensive), but i wonder what was the last ju 87 dive bombing mission.
     
  9. CharlesBronson

    CharlesBronson Well-Known Member

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    Hard to believe but true, the Stuka was used as a fighter, it scored the Fist Air victory of the World War II. :!:
     
  10. Aussie1001

    Aussie1001 Member

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    What ???????
    are u serious....
    OMFG...
     
  11. Graeme

    Graeme Well-Known Member

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    Shoot down or shot down?
    Or should the below title be ..the first allied aerial victory of the war?..

    [​IMG]
     
  12. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    That is the first allied victory.

    They very first victory of the war was when a Ju 87 shot down a Polish Polikarpov Po-2.

    The victory was credited to Kettenführer Leutnant Frank Neubert on Sept 1, 1939 and the Polikarpov Po-2 was piloted by Captain Mieczysław Medwecki.
     
  13. CharlesBronson

    CharlesBronson Well-Known Member

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    I always have two things short, patiente and sence of humour.

    If somebody still dont get it I repeat, the Ju-87B piloted by Franz Neubert scored the first air victory of the Worl War Two, shooting down a polish PZL 11 fighter.

    I hope now is clear enough.
     
  14. black out

    black out New Member

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    Thats a surprise even for me- stuka is probablly my favourite if not bf 109. I bet there were even more areal victories on the eastern front with ju 87 d5 for example, however very few for sure. I red somwere on the net that Rudel still carried out dive bombing missions (III./sg2) in 1944 altho the g model tank killer was probably used more at that time.
     
  15. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    :lol:

    Dont worry I got you the first time...
     
  16. CharlesBronson

    CharlesBronson Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Adler , is good to know that I am still able to make the point at the first attemp.


    The stukas divebombed , strafed, and attacked in every manner the russians in the Eastern front from 22th june 1941 to 7th may 1945. It was not the best aircraft but it was still used.
     
  17. Aussie1001

    Aussie1001 Member

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    charles i wasn't being sarcastic i was just surprised that that would happen
     
  18. CharlesBronson

    CharlesBronson Well-Known Member

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  19. black out

    black out New Member

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    Thanks, never seen those videos and the last german propoganda movie:D .
     
  20. Graeme

    Graeme Well-Known Member

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    Perfectly Charles. Merely wanted confirmation and 'closure' on a 31 yr old belief that Gnys was the man, based on that book. Obviously the word 'allied' was omitted. The book in question; The Guinness History of Air Warfare, by Brown, Shores, and Macksey (1976). Thanks Charles and Adler.
     
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