Kamikaze Pilots Forced? General George Kenney's Memoirs

frankv said:

I have a book, not with me ATM, called IIRC "Kamikaze Pilot". In it the author describes his path to becoming a Kamikaze pilot. It was such an honour to give his life for his emperor that he could not refuse, even though didn't want to do it. But the social pressure was so great he couldn't refuse. So I doubt stories of pilots manacled to the controls or similar. I think that the Ocha canopy didn't open, but conventional aircraft used as Kamikaze weren't modified.

A couple more points... during training as a regular pilot, there were regular practices diving at the control tower so that if their aircraft couldn't make it back to base, their death wouldn't be wasted.

And what was going through the minds of US torpedo bomber pilots who took off after Midway and all 12 aircraft from one squadron were lost with only 1 survivor?

Click to expand...

The Ohka canopy opened, when they were carried by the Betty bomber to within range of a target, the Ohka pilot was in the bomber itself, entered the Ohka, slid the canopy forward, and then he was released.

There was so many holes in that story about the chained Kamikaze pilot, even someone at the time probably wouldn't believe it.
Most suicide planes were shot down over the water, even if it was over the solid ground, it's most likely a smoking hole in the ground.
So someone is going to closely examine every piece of this wreckage and discover all this evidence???
Nope, I don't think so, it's BS.

frankv said:

And what was going through the minds of US torpedo bomber pilots who took off after Midway and all 12 aircraft from one squadron were lost with only 1 survivor?

Click to expand...

Torpedo 8 had better odds than the four Midway based B-26s of 69th BS/38th BG who attacked Nagumo's fleet without any cover at all, on the morning of 4 June.

Thanks for the input, guys.
The point wasn't to suggest this was normally done, I think the majority (99%?) of these pilots either believed they were making the most effective contribution they could to cripple the enemy, or the societal/peer pressure of the times didn't allow any choice.
This story was a footnote, but I think it's been pretty thoroughly debunked here at this point.

Hey Trav02,

re "So someone is going to closely examine every piece of this wreckage and discover all this evidence??? Nope, I don't think so, it's BS."

While I agree that manacling the pilot to the aircraft or locking the canopy was probably very rare (if it happened at all), local forces would normally investigate a wreck and recover the body from the wreckage (this was almost always done at some point after the local forces became aware of the downed aircraft). Normally the body and any personal identifiers would be recovered along with anything of value for intelligence units. The body would then be buried and the location recorded. The personal identifiers would be used to ID the pilot and later be communicated to the pilot's government (usually through the Red Cross or another intermediary, though sometimes directly) and eventually used to let the relatives know that the pilot had been killed. This was common practice for all (I think) of the Allied and Axis forces (although I do not know enough about the Eastern Front to say so with any certainty).

ThomasP said:

Hey Trav02,

re "So someone is going to closely examine every piece of this wreckage and discover all this evidence??? Nope, I don't think so, it's BS."

While I agree that manacling the pilot to the aircraft or locking the canopy was probably very rare (if it happened at all), local forces would normally investigate a wreck and recover the body from the wreckage (this was almost always done at some point after the local forces became aware of the downed aircraft). Normally the body and any personal identifiers would be recovered along with anything of value for intelligence units. The body would then be buried and the location recorded. The personal identifiers would be used to ID the pilot and later be communicated to the pilot's government (usually through the Red Cross or another intermediary, though sometimes directly) and eventually used to let the relatives know that the pilot had been killed. This was common practice for all (I think) of the Allied and Axis forces (although I do not know enough about the Eastern Front to say so with any certainty).

Click to expand...

The vast majority of the kamikaze attacks were over water, and impact was from a high angle.
In the remote possibility that this was over land, and at a low angle I could see recovering some evidence.

You wouldn't believe the destruction a 300-400 mph impact with solid earth on a aircraft and the human body.
Recent recoveries of remains from Vietnam era crashes involve sifting crash locations thru a wire screen to find human remains .
That's how my cousin's remains was recovered from Laos.

In many cases, aircraft literally buried themselves (and it's pilot) in the earth during a high-speed impact.

GrauGeist said:

Torpedo 8 had better odds than the four Midway based B-26s of 69th BS/38th BG who attacked Nagumo's fleet without any cover at all, on the morning of 4 June.

Click to expand...

Um, no. The B-26s, even encumbered with a torpedo, had twice the speed, had armor and self-sealing tanks, two engines and bristled with .30 and .50 caliber machine guns. Plus, VT-8 Detachment, flying brand new TBFs, also equipped with armor and self-sealing tanks, plus a stabilized .50 caliber in an electric turret, preceded them by a few minutes to help split the defense.
The only positive for VT-8 in TBDs was by the time they reached the Kido Butai, the Japanese CAP may have been running low on ammo.

Four B-26Bs against four fleet carriers and all that comes with them is as close to Kamikaze as it gets.

Geneva Convention (1929)

Article 4

"Belligerents shall communicate to each other reciprocally, as soon as possible, the names of the wounded, sick and dead, collected or discovered, together with any indications which may assist in their identification.

They shall establish and transmit to each other the certificates of death.

They shall likewise collect and transmit to each other all articles of a personal nature found on the field of battle or on the dead, especially one half of their identity discs, the other hall to remain attached to the body.

They shall ensure that the burial or cremation of the dead is preceded by a careful, and if possible medical, examination of the bodies, with a view to confirming death, establishing identity and enabling a report to be made.

They shall further ensure that the dead are honourably interred, that their graves are respected and marked so that they may always be found.

To this end, at the commencement of hostilities, they shall organize officially a graves registration service, to render eventual exhumations possible, and to ensure the identification of bodies whatever may be the subsequent site of the grave.

After the cessation of hostilities they shall exchange the list of graves and of dead interred in their cemeteries and elsewhere."


Also, somewhere on the internet . . . there is(was?) a post-WWII US document describing the problems with the mechanical aspects of accomplishing the above Article 4 requirements. I do not remember all the details (I ran across it probably ~15 years ago, and did not download it at the time because I did not think I would be posting about this kind of stuff 15 years later ). Relative to aircraft crashes, I do remember that it stated that most aircraft crashes in WWII left enough evidence of probable cause of death and such. Intense fuel fires on impact were the major problem with exact cause of death and positive ID, making it more difficult unless the dog tags (or equivalent) or other identifying personal documentation were recovered. Sometimes (though not always and possibly not often - due to security reasons?) the aircraft type and identifying numbers/markings were recorded and transmitted in order to aid the opposition in identifying the pilot/crew. Post-war the information was made readily available.

re possible motivation for the Kamikaze pilots

Here dead lie we because we did not choose
To live and shame the land from which we sprung.
Life, to be sure, is nothing much to lose;
But young men think it is, and we were young.

A.E.Housman
b:1859, d:1936

Houseman was an Englishman and the above was written in regard to many soldiers of WWI and their motivation to fight in the face of death.

Greg Boeser said:

Um, no. The B-26s, even encumbered with a torpedo, had twice the speed, had armor and self-sealing tanks, two engines and bristled with .30 and .50 caliber machine guns. Plus, VT-8 Detachment, flying brand new TBFs, also equipped with armor and self-sealing tanks, plus a stabilized .50 caliber in an electric turret, preceded them by a few minutes to help split the defense.
The only positive for VT-8 in TBDs was by the time they reached the Kido Butai, the Japanese CAP may have been running low on ammo.

Click to expand...

The B-26 IIRC wasn't designed to carry a torpedo and virtually had a fish stapled onto it. And the US Mark 13 aerial torpedo was one of the worst, most unreliable naval weapons of the war. Worst of all, the B-26 crews weren't properly trained in how to drop a torpedo and had never used a torpedo, even in practice runs.

If you're comparing the B-26 to the Devastator, at least the Devastator crews had some training (and in some cases, lots of training). As with all aviation topics in WW2, training was more important than aircraft quality and sending untrained men on a torpedo run is indeed a suicide mission. They didn't even really have enough planes to carry out a successful hammer and anvil attack, which are usually most successful when combined with dive bombers or level bombers. It's bizarre to me that such an uncoordinated and poorly planned mission was even carried about. But the fact that two of the bombers returned (shot to pieces) is a testament to the strength of the B-26's design quality. Those were some rugged birds.

If I had to choose between a Devastator and a B-26, I'd take the B-26 any day of the week. But if the Army or Navy wanted a successful torpedo run, the Devastator was their best bet if no Avengers were available.

GrauGeist said:

Four B-26Bs against four fleet carriers and all that comes with them is as close to Kamikaze as it gets.

Click to expand...

Four Devastators with glued on Mark 13 torpedoes and no training would have been a little closer

Trav02 said:

Hello Gentlemen,
Long-time lurker here...I'd like to pick the brains of the guys with a solid knowledge of the theater.
I was reading this memoir, available for download here.
https://media.defense.gov/2010/May/...0QFnoECAcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2gex9OslLxHJbYIwDIJaDJ
Kenney's memoirs are excellent &insightful. One paragraph that caught my eye though, was his mentioning of a couple reports that stated some kamikaze pilots may not have been entirely voluntary.
View attachment 751271
View attachment 751272View attachment 751273
Now, with that being said, I have not been able to find any mention elsewhere of such a thing. With the example of the captured pilot, presumably he had the arming wires pulled before takeoff so the vanes would unwind and arm the bombs when he started moving. If he could jump though, he evidently wasn't chained to or locked in the aircraft.

What do you guys think? Could it have happened, or faulty wartime intelligence?

This can be a sensitive topic, I know-I don't intend any disrespect.
I think Military History Visualized has a video going over attrition that was also pretty informative.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QqwDvxLVZII
Possibly more effective with aircrew untrained or poorly trained in conventional bomb/torpedo attacks.
There is the obvious human cost to consider, though.

Appreciate any thoughts you may have, let me know if I need to adjust my approach....

Click to expand...

General Kenney was a notorious "exaggerator". He claimed (even after the war) that 10,000 or more Japanese were killed in the Battle of the Bismark Sea and that 15-20 ships were sunk. It was actually 12 ships (4 destroyers and 8 transports) and the total killed was around 3,500-4,500. Anything he wrote (or said at the time) should be taken with a huge grain of salt, and likewise post-war. His exaggerations at the beginning of his command can be written off as "morale boosting braggadocio", since the air war was not going well at that time, but many of his later assertions were clearly shown to be inaccurate via SIGINT, for which he was a recipient, at least in summary form. I don't think it was his personal ego causing him to blatantly utter falsehoods, but just a personality flaw of his. (Many sport fishermen suffer from same.)

GTX said:

Last letters from young kamikaze pilots provide rare insights into Japan's feared special attack unit

Click to expand...

Thanks for your info, GTX.
I remember that I slept in my father's army blanket as a kid in the 1950s.
It was not so soft as this pic and color was faded olive. A black star was stamped on a corner.

I used to sleep with Army surplus wool blankets like the ones in your picture. They were quite nice and cozy. Unfortunately I have not been able to find them for the last 20 years or so.

I had my Grandfather's WWI vintage Army blanket (reddish colored, marked US Army) and my Dad's Army blanket (green colored, marked US) and both were wool and really scratchy and uncomfortable.