Ki-84 vs P-51 engagemants 1945

[CHen10]

333rd FS P-47N-2-RE 44-88059 was lost on 8 July 45 over Kyushu with Lt Hugh B. Smyth at the controls.

Do you know what the MACR is?

 

[Cobrahistorian]

Do you know what the MACR is?

Unfortunately with a number of the late war P-47N losses, there is no MACR. It's frustrating as hell. The action I'm looking into right now has had me stuck for 2 days. The 318th was attacking shipping off of Kakeroma Jima on 27 June 45. Supposedly there was an IJN light cruiser there, which they attacked along with some smaller vessels. I can find no record of any Japanese cruisers in the area on that date. Plus, they lost two P-47s there due to intense AA fire. 44-87906 with 2Lt Billy Reagan and 44-88024 with 2Lt George Slusser are both listed in the monthly history, but there are no MACRs for either of them.

 

[CHen10]

Cobrahistorian

I was wondering if you know anymore about this:

This is Vernon Wischer of 318FG/19FS talking about how on 28 May 1945 he shot down a Japanese fighter in his P-47N. He saw William Loflin's P-47N with a windshield covered in oil, trailing smoke, and had a damaged radiator, right after 4 Japanese fighters were seen attacking Loflin. Loflin's P-47N was clearly in very bad shape, do you know what happened to it? Was the P-47N repaired or written off after combat damage?

 

[Cobrahistorian]

Cobrahistorian

I was wondering if you know anymore about this:
View attachment 866247

This is Vernon Wischer of 318FG/19FS talking about how on 28 May 1945 he shot down a Japanese fighter in his P-47N. He saw William Loflin's P-47N with a windshield covered in oil, trailing smoke, and had a damaged radiator, right after 4 Japanese fighters were seen attacking Loflin. Loflin's P-47N was clearly in very bad shape, do you know what happened to it? Was the P-47N repaired or written off after combat damage?

Loflin made it back and his airplane was repaired. He had a single hit in his oil tank if I remember correctly. Couldn't have had a damaged radiator, Thunderbolts have air cooled engines and don't have radiators. I'm on a tight deadline right now, but I'll pull the May mission reports and monthly histories when I can. Focused on June/July 45 right now so I can finally put this book to bed.

 

[CHen10]

Loflin made it back and his airplane was repaired. He had a single hit in his oil tank if I remember correctly. Couldn't have had a damaged radiator, Thunderbolts have air cooled engines and don't have radiators. I'm on a tight deadline right now, but I'll pull the May mission reports and monthly histories when I can. Focused on June/July 45 right now so I can finally put this book to bed.

Sorry I meant damaged radio not radiator lol

 

[Jerrybandit67]

Unfortunately with a number of the late war P-47N losses, there is no MACR. It's frustrating as hell. The action I'm looking into right now has had me stuck for 2 days. The 318th was attacking shipping off of Kakeroma Jima on 27 June 45. Supposedly there was an IJN light cruiser there, which they attacked along with some smaller vessels. I can find no record of any Japanese cruisers in the area on that date. Plus, they lost two P-47s there due to intense AA fire. 44-87906 with 2Lt Billy Reagan and 44-88024 with 2Lt George Slusser are both listed in the monthly history, but there are no MACRs for either of them.

i did read once where a p-51D was shot down by an IJN ship AA fire and another P-51D was caught in an depth charge explosion dropped by a japanese destroyer and crashed, both crashed at off Camiguin Island, Philippines

 

[Jerrybandit67]

Sorry I meant damaged radio not radiator lol

What happened to Vincent Gaudianis P-51D, it was reported to have been downed by a zero over kashiwa airfield

 

[Jerrybandit67]

Sorry I meant damaged radio not radiator lol

i think i may have figured out who shot down 44-63328

according to James tapp, during attack on matsudo airfield he encountered Ki-44s, and later a formation of A6M zeros

with williams being shot down by the fighters, so Robert L. Williams is either shot down by a A6M5 or a Ki-44/84

could possibly be shot down by Makoto Ogawa, since 70th sentai was in that fight along with 53rd sentai ki-100s

 

[Jerrybandit67]

Christoe's MACR says he was last seen being attacked by an enemy fighter. It's available online

theres also location issue since Muto claimed the P-51 over Chofu at 09:20,

while the kuriki police witness from itabashi ward witnessed P-51s engaging friendly forces in an aerial combat at 11:20, and saw a P-51 fell vertically from an altitude of about 1,000 meters, into wheat field at itabashi ward ,and itabashi ward is 27km from chofu with musashino inbetween, where the dogfight took place.

Well muto likely took off from oppama airfield in wich, chofu was on the direct path to musashino, but it doesnt make sense for christoe to fly all the way to itabashi to crash there after he was claimed shot down over chofu area.

 

[Jerrybandit67]

ah forgot they waited from enoshima from 10.000 metres and they likely flew from southwest to northeast

so i assume from enoshima the 3 N1K2s approached the B-29s and on direct path to chofu they met the p-51s wich the fight seemed to have ventured to Itabashi ward, where the civil defense officer seen the plane plunge to ground, although i was skeptical about christoes p-51 shootdown, but the combat flight path does make sense now.

 

[CHen10]

theres also location issue since Muto claimed the P-51 over Chofu at 09:20,

while the kuriki police witness from itabashi ward witnessed P-51s engaging friendly forces in an aerial combat at 11:20, and saw a P-51 fell vertically from an altitude of about 1,000 meters, into wheat field at itabashi ward ,and itabashi ward is 27km from chofu with musashino inbetween, where the dogfight took place.

Well muto likely took off from oppama airfield in wich, chofu was on the direct path to musashino, but it doesnt make sense for christoe to fly all the way to itabashi to crash there after he was claimed shot down over chofu area.

ah forgot they waited from enoshima from 10.000 metres and they likely flew from southwest to northeast

so i assume from enoshima the 3 N1K2s approached the B-29s and on direct path to chofu they met the p-51s wich the fight seemed to have ventured to Itabashi ward, where the Police officer seen the plane plunge to ground, although i was skeptical about christoes p-51 shootdown, but the combat flight path does make sense now.

The N1K2s took off at 0920 hours, rather than that being the time Muto made his claim. As you noted the combat path makes sense and Christoe was seen being shot down by a Japanese fighter which must have been Muto.

 

[CHen10]

What happened to Vincent Gaudianis P-51D, it was reported to have been downed by a zero over kashiwa airfield

Gaudiani was shot down by A6Ms from 302 Kokutai. The A6Ms engaged B-29s and their P-51 escorts but likely rather shaken, the Japanese never submitted any victory claims even though they did actually down Gaudiani

昭和２０年８月６日

「訓練飛行／厚木基地」
飛行訓練の彗星１機が離陸直後、発動機が停止、基地外の畑に墜落。
操縦 板垣周一中尉
偵察 服部 宏一飛曹
【被害】

損失：彗星１機［不時着大破]
搭乗員負傷：２名
【負傷者】

板垣周一 中尉 （海兵７３期） 彗星 操縦 彗星隊飛行隊士
服部 宏 一飛曹 （甲飛１２期） 彗星 偵察



同日

0830～

｛米第２１爆撃兵団のＢ‐２９爆撃機４機、第７戦闘兵団のＰ‐５１戦闘機１２０機が、関東地区に来襲｝

『第三〇二海軍航空隊 （２０）』

第三〇二海軍航空隊 （２０）　昭和２０年８月１～２日「川崎上空Ｂ‐２９夜間邀撃」銀河、彩雲夜戦が発進。三菱石油・川崎製油所が主目標。銀河は房総半島沖まで追撃、…

ameblo.jp

The first part talks about a training flight with a D4Y that resulted in a crash landing. The battle with the B-29s and P-51s is mentioned as happening at 0830 hours. Unfortunately the only information about the battle noted was the time and location with the number of A6Ms being involved not known.

 

[CHen10]

i think i may have figured out who shot down 44-63328

according to James tapp, during attack on matsudo airfield he encountered Ki-44s, and later a formation of A6M zeros

with williams being shot down by the fighters, so Robert L. Williams is either shot down by a A6M5 or a Ki-44/84

could possibly be shot down by Makoto Ogawa, since 70th sentai was in that fight along with 53rd sentai ki-100s

Ogawa's claim dates for his P-51s are unknown, meaning there is no way to link Ogawa to Robert L Williams' loss

 

[Jerrybandit67]

Ogawa's claim dates for his P-51s are unknown, meaning there is no way to link Ogawa to Robert L Williams' loss

ah thanks for info

 

[Jerrybandit67]

The N1K2s took off at 0920 hours, rather than that being the time Muto made his claim. As you noted the combat path makes sense and Christoe was seen being shot down by a Japanese fighter which must have been Muto.

japanese newspaper about civil defense corps officers story about christoes P-51 shootdown and crash at 11:20

 

[Jerrybandit67]

hmmm did the japanese report fighting P-51s over Xinyang or Hengyang on 18 may 1945?
where a P-51K flown by zhang dafei of 28th squadron was shot down by reported japanese zeroes

probably shot down by 9th sentai ki-84s or 48th sentai ki43s.

 

[Jerrybandit67]

The N1K2s took off at 0920 hours, rather than that being the time Muto made his claim. As you noted the combat path makes sense and Christoe was seen being shot down by a Japanese fighter which must have been Muto.

From the national archives MACR report you posted year ago it does line up with the yokosuka combat

3 N1K2s scrambled
Matsuo Hagiris Aircraft was hit By B-29 fire and Landed at airbase so only 2 N1k2s encountered p-51s

Duerr reported two aircraft, he saw a Tojo coming from the right,
he damaged it (Hitting Yuzo tsukumotos plane wich was damaged by P-51s forcing to break off and emergency land at airbase) then as Duerr tried to find christoe he saw a tojo coming from under his plane he gave it a burst

(he possibly saw Muto flying under him after the supposed kill trying to leave the area, missing him)