Klear question - UK specific?

Discussion in 'Painting Questions, Tutorials and Guidebooks' started by s1chris, Nov 3, 2013.

  1. s1chris

    s1chris Member

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    Hello guys.

    So after much deliberation in the supermarket today I purchased this -

    [​IMG]

    Questions -

    I guess as it says on the label that this is the rebranded Klear?
    Is this ok for model use?
    Do I apply as I would a clear gloss acrylic pre decal application?
    Is this stuff safe to apply a Tamiya Matt clear over the top of?
    What's the application process for modelling use?

    If I have bought a load of rubbish then it looks like the missus has just bagged herself an early Xmas pressie!

    Cheers Chris
     
  2. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    I've still got a stash of the old style Klear but several people have tried the version you have and so far all would answer "yes" to your first four questions.

    As for application opinions differ. Some people prefer to spray it on. Others, myself included, prefer to brush it on. It's a self levelling floor polish and brush marks are not an issue. In either case be careful not to overdo it as it will pool or run around edges.

    Any problems and it is easily removed with any ammonia containing cleaning product, I use a self made dilute ammonia solution. I've also discovered, inadvertently, that methylated spirits will shift it very effectively.

    Cheers

    Steve
     
  3. s1chris

    s1chris Member

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    Methylated spirt? Isn't that for drinking in the case of a beer shortage?

    Anyway. Good stuff Steve. The missus being a hairdresser means I have plenty of ammonia based concoctions around the house so removal won't be a problem. I'm also thinking that one of those "ink" rubbers could work for smaller areas of removal as I'm sure they are ammonia based, well at school they used to smell like it.

    I'm going to opt for the spray application. I'm guessing thinners will still clean the airbrush through with Klear in it?

    Is one application enough for pre-decal use?

    Cheers Chris
     
  4. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Chris, one application, sprayed, might be enough, although it depends on the paint finish it's being applied to. Normally, for a good gloss finish, two or more coats may e needed. Ensure all coats are fully hardened before applying decals - leave it at least 24 hours, preferably two or three days.
    Ensure you clean the airbrush immediately after using the Klear, as it will 'bung up' everything otherwise !
    I try to avoid spraying as a gloss coat, preferring to brush it on, but I do mix it with Tamiya flat base to obtain various finish coats, from semi gloss to full matt. I clean the airbrush by flushing out with water, repeating this a number of times, by spraying it through the 'brush, and then a final spray of something like iso alcohol or similar thinners, followed by a long burst of air only.
     
  5. s1chris

    s1chris Member

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    Cheers Terry.

    I take it that as you actually mix the clear with the Tamiya Matt that it is safe to apply the Tamiya over the clear as my finishing coat.

    I only really need this to apply before the decals to aid their application as I don't have any Tamiya clear gloss and couldn't be botherd to order a jar an wait for it.

    All if the models I build will have the same final coat of Tamiya semi gloss (I think that's what I have been using). Never a gloss finish, with maybe the exception of bare metal finishes.

    Cheers Chris
     
  6. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    Chris,

    I would give it a try before using on almost finished models. The "wax" word in the name of the liquid may suggest using it as a polishing agent. The wax is also a component of a shoe polish. As my memo serves it can give the white deposit when touching with water, wetness or water based acrylics.
     
  7. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Chris, if you are using Tamiya Flat Base as a matt clear coat, do NOT apply it neat! You'll end up with a streaky, greyish-white mess!
    Mix it with the Klear, to obtain anything from full matt up to semi gloss. You'll need to experiment with the mix, testing on a piece of scrap - it only takes about 5 to 10 minutes to show the finish. You don't meed much Flat Base in the mix, so start off with a drop or two, mix it, test it and so on.
     
  8. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    I agree with Terry. The Tamiya Flat Base gives a very deep matt. Applying to much you will get the effect Terry depicted above.
     
  9. mikewint

    mikewint Well-Known Member

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    #9 mikewint, Nov 3, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2013
    The Pledge product which you purchased is indeed, as the label states, a WAX. The ingredients clearly show this. Besides Aqua (water) the next 3 ingredients are waxes, followed by alcohols, bases to adjust pH, and several types of lye-soaps. Parfum (perfume) and Linalool (flower scent alcohol), followed by wetting agents and preservatives, styrene and the next are acrylics, lye, and the last is a powerful biocide. I personally would not use it in place of Future. Your product is clearly meant as a powerful basic pH floor cleaner and wax with a small amount of acrylic to coat the wax
    Aqua
    Butyl acrylate-methacrylic acid-styrene copolymer
    Ethylene glycol polymer with Fumaric acid and Rosin
    Ethoxydiglycol
    Oxidized polyethylene
    Alcohols, C9-11-iso-, C10-rich, ethoxylated
    Ammonium hydroxide
    Parfum
    Dipropylene Glycol
    Sodium dodecylbenzenesulfonate
    Sodium lauryl sulfate
    Undeceth-5
    Colophonium
    Potassium hydroxide
    Linalool
    N-(n-octyl)-2-pyrrolidinone
    Undecyl alcohol
    Benzisothiazolinone
    Sodium sulfate
    Dimethylol Glycol
    Styrene
    n-Butyl acrylate
    Sodium hydroxide
    Methylisothiazolinone
    The U.S. product is labeled as a floor FINISH and the 2nd – 4th are acrylic based coatings followed by wetting agents, a mild soap, and preservatives
    Water
    Proprietary Film Former
    Proprietary Film Former
    Proprietary Film Former
    Tributoxyethyl Phosphate
    Ethoxydiglycol
    Fragrance from SC Johnson Fragrance Palette
    Ammonium Hydroxide
    Oleic Acid
    Dimethyl Oxazolidine
    Proprietary Wetting Agent
    Benzotriazolyl Dodecyl p-Cresol
    Hydrogen Peroxide
    Pentasodium Pentetate
     

    Attached Files:

  10. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    But the people who have actually tried it, and they are legion, check some British modelling sites, all make positive reports.
    I can't confirm them first hand as I have not used it myself.
    Cheers
    Steve
     
  11. s1chris

    s1chris Member

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    Ill give it a bash on a flat panel first anyway.
    1) as Terry suggested to get the mix with the Tamiya product right 2) to see if this stuff actually works.
    I'll post up the results when done.

    Does anybody have the formula for the old version of Klear for comparison?

    Cheers Chris
     
  12. mikewint

    mikewint Well-Known Member

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    It is not available in the US so I cannot speak from experience but since you can go to Amazon and buy the original Pledge with Future shine why take a chance? My bottle has lasted over 3 years now
     
  13. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Mike, in the UK, 'Future' was always known, and labeled as, Johnson's 'Klear', and was exactly the same product as sold elsewhere under different product names, such as 'Future'.
    The product that Chris has bought is the replacement for the UK 'Klear', and works in the same way. There is a slight visual difference, compared to the original 'Klear', which was around for about 40 years, in that it looks slightly 'milky' before use, whereas the original was cristal clear, but once applied, dries clear and hard.
    Since the 'new' product was introduced, about two years ago, I now have had to buy and use it, and I suspect this is the same as anywhere else in the World, bar differences in label and bottle design. It works as well as the 'old' stuff, although personally, I don't think it has quite the same degree of gloss.
    I always think, "if it ain't bust, don't mend it", so why they changed it is beyond me!
     
  14. mikewint

    mikewint Well-Known Member

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    Terry, companies ALWAYS have to fiddle so that they can be "NEW" and "improved". The fomulas I posted are taken from SC Johnson's US and UK current web sites. The difference in the formulas is "Klear". I'm sure that the milky appearance is due to the waxes present in the UK formula. That is one of the reasons for the organic/water solvents like Dimethylol Glycol that are present in the formula, i.e. one end of the molecule disolves in the organic wax and the hydroxyl (-OH) ends (alcohol functional group) is misible in water.
    I'm glad it works well for you but personally I'll stick to the orginal acylic Future which while not available in UK stores can still be obtained online. I have two more bottles double bagged in zip-lock stored away so I'm set for life no matter what SC decided to improve.
     
  15. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    I agree with Mike. The wax is responsible for the milky appearance of the liquid. Here is a shot of the Future that was an acrylic gloss coat in fact.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. s1chris

    s1chris Member

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    Ohh now I'm confused lol. Either way, I'll give it a go on a sheet of primed Perspex to try the mix with Tamiya clear Matt or semi gloss.
    I will apply it over black and then overcoat it with Tamiya semi gloss to see how it reacts.

    Then the answer is conclusive.

    Cheers Chris
     
  17. s1chris

    s1chris Member

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    Hello all,

    I decided to sacrifice my Hurricane to Klear test.
    Here it is after one application by airbrush.

    [​IMG]

    All fine and dandy, no adverse effects on the paintwork.

    Cheers Chris
     
  18. mikewint

    mikewint Well-Known Member

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    Maybe it is just the photo but to me it looks like the plane is covered with a white film. Future should dry totally clear and have a high gloss
     
  19. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    Yep .. she doeas look like Mike stated in the post above.
     
  20. s1chris

    s1chris Member

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    Well the lights not great but it does look a bit hazy.
    I like the finish it has given but it is definitely not high gloss.

    It could be related to the various coats I have given the model before as this was one of my first models and even the semi-gloss clear I had applied first was applied at a very high pressure (not knowing how to use an airbrush basically).

    I'll apply some over something black tonight and see how it ends up.
    Luckily a high gloss finish is not what I am after for any models that I build.

    Cheers Chris
     
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