Klear question - UK specific?

[mikewint]

Chris, Agreed, on the finished model (military) you do not want a gloss BUT if you want your decals to adhere properly and not end up looking like decals you need a very smooth paint finish else small amounts of air are trapped under the decal. So mil-flat paints are sprayed with Future to give a gloss finish, decals are applied and microsoled, then a 50-50 Future/flat clear mix is sprayed over the entire model
1. Decal applied directly over mil-flat paint
2. Decal applied over Future and then microsol applied. Decal looks "painted" and even sinks into panel line

 

[fubar57]

Curious as to why model paints aren't geared towards a gloss finish to begin with. 98% of the model is going to be glossy before decals are applied and I even add a gloss coat to interior parts to make the wash run smoother and then a flat coat is applied when it's dry.

Geo

 

[Airframes]

The Xtracolor range of paints are all gloss finish, as it's expected to finish with the required clear coat, i.e, matt, semi-matt, semi gloss etc. The only matt paints in the range are interior colours.
They work beautifully, but, of course, one's preferred method of weathering, adding washes etc needs to be adapted to suit.

 

[mikewint]

Terry, is that a brand name for model paints? Don't think I've seen it here

 

[Airframes]

Yep, been around for over thirty years. They are marketed by Hannant's, and I believe the US agent is Squadron.
The range is vast, and includes most WW1, WW2 and 'modern' military colours for all major air forces, as well as a large range of 'airline' and basic, common colours.
If brush painting, the paint need to be 'laid off' properly, to avoid the odd, tiny air bubble, and of course, being gloss, takes longer to dry. But the finish is superb, the colours accurate and consistent and, to date, I've never had a problem, of any kind, when using them. The only reason that all my paints aren't Xtracolour is that they aren't stocked locally, so I get them, if needed, when placing another order with Hannant's.
Oh, and they don't 'go off' in the tin, as some paints do - I've recently used some which, I noticed by the date I'd written on the label, I bought in March 1986 !!!

 

[mikewint]

Thanks Terry, I will look into them. There goes my 234 bottles of Tamiya flats

 

[Airframes]

Forgot to add, Xtracolor are enamel paints, but they also have acrylics, called, not unsurprisingly, Xtracrylic. I haven't used these, as I don't like acrylic paints, of any origin, but I'm presuming that they are also gloss.

 

[stona]

Xtracrylic........... but I'm presuming that they are also gloss.

Allegedly, but they didn't dry particularly glossy for me. The colours are very good.
I've given up on acrylic paints after a brief flirtation (couple of years) and have now reverted entirely to enamels. I got sick of cleaning acrylics out of my airbrushes
Cheers
Steve

 

[Airframes]

Same here Steve. I've had more problems 'unplugging' the airbrush when using acrylics, than all problems combined in over fifty years of using enamels. And of course, brush-painting with acrylics is pointless, they just don't do it - unless it's a picture on canvas!
I realise that many people swear by acrylics, but to me, they're 'Mickey Mouse', with more limitations than advantages, and certainly do NOT have the versatility of enamels.

 

[stona]

I will argue until hell freezes over that enamel paints are easier to use! I can't remember the last time I had a problem with enamels in the airbrush. They are much easier to flush through and clean out. I read of people stripping their airbrush(es) after each session. I strip mine after three or four models, several months, even then they often don't really need it. Enamel paints are more tolerant of my rather approximate "that looks about right" style of thinning

They do have obvious disadvantages for some.
Drying time is not an issue for me as I don't treat model building as a race. The smell. I'm fortunate to have a nice work area and good extraction system to eliminate the smell. Not everyone is so lucky.

Just because acrylic paints don't smell doesn't mean that the spraying process isn't producing an aerosol that should not be inhaled.

Cheers

Steve

 

[Airframes]

I agree there too. I don't actually notice the smell much, or feel any adverse effects when, or after, using enamels.
However, the few times I've used acrylics, from three different manufacturers, I've experienced a 'stuffed up' nose, sore eyes, and a slight tightening of the chest. The nasal cavities have felt like they've been coated in a plastic skin and, having looked inside the airbrush, when stripped for cleaning after using acrylics, I'd hate to think what my airways are like!!
They're the work of the Devil, I tell you, sent here as a Government ploy to ... well, to do something to **** us up !

 

[stona]

They're the work of the Devil, I tell you, sent here as a Government ploy to ... well, to do something to **** us up !

But, if the nanny state has its way it's the enamels which will get outlawed on some spurious health and safety grounds!
I've been using enamels since I was about eight years old, which is almost fifty years, and of all the things I've been exposed to that might have damaged me in that time, enamel paints would be well down the list!
Cheers
Steve

 

[Airframes]

Yep same here Steve!
I've been exposed to gun fire, explosives, harmful chemicals, nasty wild life and vegetation, bl**dy vicious Mosquitoes and other biting things, a couple of ex-wives, and the odd bad beer! But, like you, I've used enamel (and oil and cellulose) paints since the age of 8, which is approaching 54 years now, and have never had any ill effects.
No doubt some interfering pr**k in authority, somewhere, will eventually ban enamels totally, having already introduced restrictions, but I just hope I'm too old and knackered to care by then !

 

[mikewint]

As you all know I am firmly in the acrylic camp though will use enamels and even lacquers if the need arises. I have air brushed acrylics for the past three years with no clogging problems. I have a new basement work room that I can spray paint in and have even placed exhaust fans in the windows at times. The ease of clean-up with water and isopropyl alcohol have sold me on acrylics.
Everyone is different and I don't doubt Terry in the least but the solvents used in enamels and lacquers are far harsher to the majority. Take this article from our Aussies:
HAZEL DOONEY has long savoured the creamy texture of high-gloss enamel paint and the ''perfect veneer'' that emerges after she sands it back. Collectors also like the glossy, Manga-style characters she paints on large boards.
But it's a toxic love affair and after almost 15 years of a range of nasty side-effects, Dooney is ditching the medium. Other than already commissioned works, she will no longer produce enamel paintings.
Dooney is not the first artist to abandon enamel paint after suffering rashes, blisters and nosebleeds. But gallery owners say it could make enamel works more sought-after.
The death of Dooney's father, Thomas Dooney, in January, from cancer, was the catalyst for the change, making her think about the health risks of long exposure to the paint and its fumes. Wearing gloves and a face mask helped but did not eradicate all symptoms, she says.
''I would get a red, blotchy rash on my chest and neck, my skin would break out in itchy sores, [the paint fumes] dried out the inside of my nose'', causing nosebleeds.
Exposure to paints and solvents, especially when ventilation is poor, can cause nausea and irritate skin, according to WorkCover NSW. Longer-term effects include asthma and lung cancer.
Safety sheets provided by paint suppliers advise people to wear eye protection and gloves when using high-gloss enamel paint. Some brands warn that prolonged skin contact may lead to dermatitis. Inhaling paint fumes may irritate airways and cause headaches and dizziness, among other things.
One artist, Jeremy Kibel, recognised for the use of enamel in his landscapes and backgrounds, has also suffered serious side effects from the paint and uses it only in small amounts.
''I used to use it because it was cheap,'' Kibel says. ''The stuff is horrid. I was getting smoker's cough from the fumes. When you use it all the time you get blistering in your nose.''
Kibel's GP advised him to stop using the paint .
Or this from a web site on model cars:
I use Testor's enamel spray paint for my models, and have all my windows in my room open and a fan running fresh air into the room everytime i spray. Recently though, even with all these measures, ive been feeling nauseous, short of breath, mild chest pains, from even small spurts. It cant be a growing old thing--I'm only fourteen. The question: should I be wearing a dustmask, respirator, aqualung or whatever with this stuff, or is something else not right?

 

[stona]

All I can say is that I've never suffered any symptom or side effect from using enamel paints. I would imagine that my exposure would be very much less than those artists and I don't know what paints they are using. "Enamels" is a term which covers a broad range of paint types.
The young modeller should certainly be wearing a suitable mask. I have a very efficient extraction system, but when spraying for any significant time I wear a suitable mask. It serves a second purpose of frightening young relatives up to bed
In a previous career I dealt with chemicals that really were unpleasant or dangerous so limiting my exposure to solvents (not splashing them all over!) is second nature to me.
Cheers
Steve

 

[Airframes]

About the same here Steve.
I also have a theory, I admit lacking in scientific basis, that 'younger generations' may well be more susceptible, due to the fact they weren't brought up in an atmosphere of overall pollution. Growing up in the 1950's and 1960's, the UK then was still clouded in all sorts of 'nasties', from the smoke from coal fires and steam trains, factories pushing out all sorts of gunge into the atmosphere, leaded petrol fumes, leaded paints, raw chemical coatings on timbers and other surfaces, 99% of the population smoking, much less control over additives and hygiene in food, and so on and so on.
I believe that this, which would never be allowed today, developed a 'built in' immune system, protecting us from some of the things which, very easily, can have adverse health affects on later generations.
I mean, imagine wearing a protective helmet whilst riding a bicycle back in the 1960s, never mind a 'smog' mask - people would have thought you were a real pansy !!