GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
I might suggest Alexander Kartveli and Kelly Johnson.
Edited to add Dr. Lippisch.
Edited to add Dr. Lippisch.
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Known aerodynamicists?
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That was based on a post saying the Soviets invented the jet engine in 1929. In fact having the idea is one thing, building a jet that works is another, and building one that works well enough to put in an aeroplane is yet another.
Shortround6
Major General
Soviets also claimed to have invented the telephone around 20 years before Alexander G. Bell, and the automobile and just about everything else newer than animal skin clothing.
A number of other countries have exaggerated their own inventiveness but I don't think anybody claimed to have invented practically everything like the Soviets did in the 1920s thru 50s. They toned things down considerably in later years.
A number of other countries have exaggerated their own inventiveness but I don't think anybody claimed to have invented practically everything like the Soviets did in the 1920s thru 50s. They toned things down considerably in later years.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
A Frenchman, Maxime Guillaume, held the first patent for an axial flow gas turbine aircraft engine, filed in 1921.
The first native Soviet jet engine (an axial flow design), was Lyulka's TR-1.
The TR-1's development started in 1944.
This is the engine he patented, it is little more than a sketch of an idea see below. The first ship powered by a turbine was "Turbinia" launched in 1894. Results were initially disappointing which led to the construction of a "cavitation tunnel" to research cavitation. Just having an idea doesnt mean it will work, it usually requires a lot of very clever people in all sorts of fields to make these things work.
Hi
Between the two wars a lot of aerodynamics was changing due to changing from bi-planes to monoplanes so a lot work was undertaken, for example R J Mitchell of Supermarine with the S.4 in 1925 (this crashed probably due to wing flutter) which appeared to be very 'streamlined' for the day. However, after much wind tunnel work at the NPL, which resulted in whittling away the profile drag, Mitchell designed the S.5 racer which had 29 per cent less drag than the S.4.
Also in 1929 the classic paper 'The Streamlined Aeroplane' by Professor Melvill Jones was published (source: 'Biplane to Monoplane', Chapter 8 'Advances in Aerodynamics' by Patrick Hassell, Putnam 1997).
We should also note that 'old' research can become relevant, for example when aircraft started approaching supersonic speeds the work undertaken by the 18th Century British engineer and artillerist Benjamin Robins (1707-51) measured the drag of spheres (cannon balls) flying at supersonic speeds. He had: "...observed that he could increase the range of his cannonballs by increasing the powder charge, but he also noted to his surprise that beyond a certain charge, no further significant increase resulted. In modern terms the drag coefficient of cannonballs must have increased significantly as Robin's muzzle velocities approached the speed of sound." (source: 'What Makes Airplanes Fly? History, Science, and Applications of Aerodynamics' Second Edition, by Peter P Wegener, Springer 1997, pages 14 and 171.)
Mike
Between the two wars a lot of aerodynamics was changing due to changing from bi-planes to monoplanes so a lot work was undertaken, for example R J Mitchell of Supermarine with the S.4 in 1925 (this crashed probably due to wing flutter) which appeared to be very 'streamlined' for the day. However, after much wind tunnel work at the NPL, which resulted in whittling away the profile drag, Mitchell designed the S.5 racer which had 29 per cent less drag than the S.4.
Also in 1929 the classic paper 'The Streamlined Aeroplane' by Professor Melvill Jones was published (source: 'Biplane to Monoplane', Chapter 8 'Advances in Aerodynamics' by Patrick Hassell, Putnam 1997).
We should also note that 'old' research can become relevant, for example when aircraft started approaching supersonic speeds the work undertaken by the 18th Century British engineer and artillerist Benjamin Robins (1707-51) measured the drag of spheres (cannon balls) flying at supersonic speeds. He had: "...observed that he could increase the range of his cannonballs by increasing the powder charge, but he also noted to his surprise that beyond a certain charge, no further significant increase resulted. In modern terms the drag coefficient of cannonballs must have increased significantly as Robin's muzzle velocities approached the speed of sound." (source: 'What Makes Airplanes Fly? History, Science, and Applications of Aerodynamics' Second Edition, by Peter P Wegener, Springer 1997, pages 14 and 171.)
Mike
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
I was in middle school at the time. A filler piece on the evening news reported the Soviets claimed to have invented the firetruck. That is why they are painted red.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
I like this engine. I wonder why hand cranked jet engines weren't adopted sooner.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
I'd seen a PBS documentary on space flight years ago. It demonstrated, thru animation, an artillerist calculated velocity and angle that would be needed to achieve orbit. The cannon ball, though falling, wouldn't hit the ground. Would that have been this officer?
This is also the secret of flight. Throw yourself at the ground and miss.
Even in 1921 an engine maker would laugh at that as a design. Mercedes Benz were using superchargers in 1921.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The fact that Guillaume put the theory to paper with an idea of aircraft propulsion at that point in time, was notable.
*if* the Soviets had actually been "first", they sure dropped the ball - the Germans, Americans and British all had production jet aircraft by 1944 and what did the Soviets have?
The closest thing they had, was the rocket powered Bereznyak BI-1, which was not all that impressive.
Hi
I think you will find that is from Newton's thought experiment reference gravity, I believe it appears in his 'Principia Mathematica' of 1687.
Mike
Snautzer01
Honourably banned
- 42,434
- Mar 26, 2007
Purges. There is a documentary on you tube explaining why soviets were in front and then bled behind. Untill uncle J needed them again.and what did the Soviets have?
Lot of the engineers died in camps.
Shortround6
Major General
The industrial gas turbine pre dates WW I.
The theory was there, the execution was not.
They could not recover enough power from the turbine to turn the compressor fast enough to keep the engine running.
They could spin the test rigs fast enough to start with external power but they could not keep running on their own. Being industrial machines they also weighed huge amounts for designed power. The idea was power fans/compressors for steel making or other industries and replace steam engines and boilers.
This is also why some gov officials didn't want to fund research, the only examples they had seen/read about weighed well over 10lbs per hp. Getting a working engine to weight 1/10th of that was sticking point.
The theory was there, the execution was not.
They could not recover enough power from the turbine to turn the compressor fast enough to keep the engine running.
They could spin the test rigs fast enough to start with external power but they could not keep running on their own. Being industrial machines they also weighed huge amounts for designed power. The idea was power fans/compressors for steel making or other industries and replace steam engines and boilers.
This is also why some gov officials didn't want to fund research, the only examples they had seen/read about weighed well over 10lbs per hp. Getting a working engine to weight 1/10th of that was sticking point.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Or a good many of them left Imperial Russia before the Bolsheviks took over, like Seversky, Kartveli, Gregorashvili (Gregor) and Sikorsky.
Snautzer01
Honourably banned
- 42,434
- Mar 26, 2007
Indeed. But what was devestating is that not only the heads of organisation were purdeg but many, more ordinary people like metal ingineers and chemist drawing people, etc, the one who worked out the planes were killed.
You can put quite easily another ceo in. Skilled hands and minds not so easy.
You can put quite easily another ceo in. Skilled hands and minds not so easy.
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ThomasP
Senior Master Sergeant
Adolf Busemann, primarily known to the public for his work on transonic and supersonic aerodynamics and swept wings, but was also responsible for a significant bit of the wind tunnel improvements in Germany.
Hugh Dryden, primarily known to the public for the research center named after him, but he did similar work to that of Busemann, ie high-subsonic to transonic aerodynamics and the wind tunnel principles used to test such. Known to the WWII aircraft buffs for his work on laminar flow and his contribution to the P-51 wing design.
As for many(most?) of the others mentioned in this thread they worked in multiple disciplines, it theory and application.
Hugh Dryden, primarily known to the public for the research center named after him, but he did similar work to that of Busemann, ie high-subsonic to transonic aerodynamics and the wind tunnel principles used to test such. Known to the WWII aircraft buffs for his work on laminar flow and his contribution to the P-51 wing design.
As for many(most?) of the others mentioned in this thread they worked in multiple disciplines, it theory and application.
It's about time those three were listed. Each made exceptional contributions, cleaning up existing designs. All three did their first aerophysics work with gliders and sailplanes, as did Sikorsky, Lippisch and Messerschmidt.
Too often overlooked are sailplane designers, like Schempp, Holigaus, Kaiser, Jacobs and Waibel whose work on pure aerodynamics influenced civil and military aircraft.
Remember that winglets, spoilers, turbulators, laminar flow, variable geometry among other techniques were developed for or extensively tested and proven on sailplanes before being commonly adopted for all aircraft.
The National Air and Space Museum has a Norwegian axial flow turbine in their collection dating from about 1912 IIRC. It was on display in their Jet Aviation gallery.
ThomasP
Senior Master Sergeant
Interesting. This is the first I have heard of him relative to gas turbine development.
"Ægidius Elling - Wikipedia" gives some of the basics.
"Ægidius Elling - Wikipedia" gives some of the basics.
