Known aerodynamicists? (2 Viewers)

[bf109xxl]

The equations are not a constant they are based on what is known about what is available, but material science is evolving too.

1. Please indicate which equations of theoretical aerodynamics (more precisely, fluid dynamics) have been refuted over time? The physical and mathematical basis is mostly just being extended. Yes, the empirical approach is still very common - not everything can be simulated, wind tunnel experiments are extremely important. But very often a calculation is sufficient for an accurate estimation of the parameters of a phenomenon.
2. Materials science is poorly related to aerodynamics; in this thread we only consider the contribution of the latter.

If you gave all the plans for an F35 to Wilbur and Orville Wright in 1903 they would be impressed but they couldnt build one, and probably couldnt get one built in their lifetimes.

How long would it take to develop the F-35 using a purely empirical approach for aerodynamic optimization nowadays?

 

[pbehn]

1. Please indicate which equations of theoretical aerodynamics (more precisely, fluid dynamics) have been refuted over time? The physical and mathematical basis is mostly just being extended. Yes, the empirical approach is still very common - not everything can be simulated, wind tunnel experiments are extremely important. But very often a calculation is sufficient for an accurate estimation of the parameters of a phenomenon.
2. Materials science is poorly related to aerodynamics; in this thread we only consider the contribution of the latter.

How long would it take to develop the F-35 using a purely empirical approach for aerodynamic optimization nowadays?

Really? If that were true, how do you know the weight of the aircraft or the strength of its wings and spars to know it could perform a 9G turn? Concorde famously changed in length when flying supersonic, such that the pilots on some last flights put their cap in a gap next to a bulkhead that isnt there when the plane is parked, without knowing the strength and elongation under load how do you allow for that in the design?

 

[bf109xxl]

Really? If that were true, how do you know the weight of the aircraft or the strength of its wings and spars to know it could perform a 9G turn?

Really. None of the above has anything to do with aerodynamics (fluid mechanics). It's either dynamics (pure mechanics) or mechanics of materials.

 

[bf109xxl]

From Wiki:

Aerodynamics ... is the study of the motion of air, particularly when affected by a solid object, such as an airplane wing.[1] It involves topics covered in the field of fluid dynamics and its subfield of gas dynamics, and is an important domain of study in aeronautics.

 

[Sabrejet]

Not sure what this thread is about really; a few examples have been cited, yet discussion veers off every time it gets to specific individuals.

 

[bf109xxl]

Not sure what this thread is about really; a few examples have been cited, yet discussion veers off every time it gets to specific individuals.

The discussion is more around the definition of " aerodynamicist". For some people - including me - it is a physicist, a researcher who develops a scientific explanation of a phenomenon. For others, it is an engineer responsible for optimizing the aerodynamic properties of an object (aircraft, blower, etc.) using ready-made approaches developed by researchers.

 

[ThomasP]

Because of the time we are considering, when designers often had to wear two (or more) hats, I consider many of the designers to be handling a combination of the two fields - physics and engineering (ie theory and application).

 

[pbehn]

Really. None of the above has anything to do with aerodynamics (fluid mechanics). It's either dynamics (pure mechanics) or mechanics of materials.

Thanks, so aerodynamics is nothing to do with designing aircraft, glad we sorted that one out.

 

[Sabrejet]

Well I'm confused. Aerodynamics. Aerodynamicists. Or was this just an excuse for an argument?

George Scharier at Boeing. Any discussion on this?

 

[ThomasP]

He would be a good example of what I was saying, in that he operated in multiple disciplines, though his degrees were in engineering and not physics/aerodynamics.

 

[bf109xxl]

Thanks, so aerodynamics is nothing to do with designing aircraft, glad we sorted that one out.

Erroneous logic. Aerodynamics (equations, methods) is used to design airplanes, but does not mean design itself. Simply check out a textbook on aerodynamics (fluid mechanics).

 

[pbehn]

Erroneous logic. Aerodynamics (equations, methods) is used to design airplanes, but does not mean design itself. Simply check out a textbook on aerodynamics (fluid mechanics).

Thanks for that clarification, now please clarify what an aerodynamicist does?