Laminar Flow Control

XBe02Drvr · Dec 2, 2020

Odoaker said:
There is no point in using them outdoors, as they are in the air for quite a long time, but the flight direction is completely random. How did you solve this problem with your models?

By paying attention to wind direction and areas of probable "lift" from thermals or upslope air movement.
First, I would trim a large (1-2 M wingspan)
glider to fly in a very gentle turn, so that in still air it would circle within 300-500 M of where I launched it.
Second, I would launch from the upwind side of a large open area, so as it circled it would drift into the open area.
Third, I did a lot of running to keep the dang thing in sight when it threatened to liberate itself from my posession. I have retrieved gliders from trees, rooftops, rivers, the tops of parked semi trucks, a barnyard, and a baseball park grandstand. I was a nordic ski racer and jumper and a track and field athlete in high school, so running came naturally.
All that experience in second guessing the behavior of the air became valuable later in life when I became a flight instructor in gliders.

gumbyk · Dec 2, 2020

Odoaker said:
I'm afraid not necessarily. The soldier said that the mechanics and pilots were terrified and that some planes had numerous technical problems during take-off - precisely because they were not prepared. But the Soviet command was not worried about the lives of the soldiers. The generals were proud that the planes took off quickly under conditions of total surprise.

That comes down to the attitude of higher ranks, American and British had ground crews warming the aircraft, as they didn't consider pilots or aircraft an expendable resource.

tyrodtom said:
I was stationed at a Seymour Johnson AFB , NC, in 1966, a SAC base.
They would have alerts where all the B-52s and their tankers had to get in the air within a certain specified time limit.
I don't remember what that time limit was.

The difference between jets and piston engines there. A turbine is happy to go from 0 to full power in as long as it takes to start. A piston engine needs time to warm up.

pbehn · Dec 3, 2020

gumbyk said:
That comes down to the attitude of higher ranks, American and British had ground crews warming the aircraft, as they didn't consider pilots or aircraft an expendable resource.

The difference between jets and piston engines there. A turbine is happy to go from 0 to full power in as long as it takes to start. A piston engine needs time to warm up.

In the UK in the BoB there was no such thing as an unexpected raid. There were some cases where planes were caught on the ground, or were taking off as the raid took place but the aircraft and pilots were ready to go from sunrise.

Odoaker · Dec 3, 2020

tyrodtom said:
I was stationed at a Seymour Johnson AFB , NC, in 1966, a SAC base.
They would have alerts where all the B-52s and their tankers had to get in the air within a certain specified time limit.
I don't remember what that time limit was.

But when they occurred everybody for miles around knew it.
My barracks was over a mile from the SAC ready pad, when those 12 or so B-52s and a tanker each started up, we had to yell at each other to be heard over the noise.
And in the back of your mind was always the thought , is this just a drill ? or ???.

If it was a drill, they called it off when all the B-52s reached their assigned altitude, and location for refueling.

The tankers would come back first, that's when we'd be sure we weren't all about to become crispy critters.

Just one failure to successfully get all the aircraft in the air within that time limit would at least result in the relief of the squadron commander.'
There were no excuses accepted.

That was how the USAF did it in 1966, I have no idea how the Soviets did it.

Well, yes, but here's the "problem" - if the planes are to take off safely, they have to be checked somehow - and then the exercises are no surprise. Unless this unit is required to be on constant alert. As far as I know, units in the Warsaw Pact were divided into two types: "pact" units were to be able to react quickly. And the rest of the units did not have such readiness, such good discipline, and good equipment.

Odoaker · Dec 3, 2020

tyrodtom said:
And then back to a home made model glider ?
And none of it has anything to do with laminar flow control .

You might need to move this out of the technical section to another.

Because the "problem" is that I already found out from you how a symmetrical wing could produce a lift and completely different questions appeared in my head. I would have to open a few other threads to stay organized. But I guess that's my last question at this point, so ...

Odoaker · Dec 3, 2020

gumbyk said:
That comes down to the attitude of higher ranks, American and British had ground crews warming the aircraft, as they didn't consider pilots or aircraft an expendable resource.

I know many examples of how silly the communism was, for example Piper Cub were destroyed because they were "western" and the witnesses should not see them, but this is off-topic.

XBe02Drvr · Dec 3, 2020

Odoaker said:
I know many examples of how silly the communism was, for example Piper Cub were destroyed because they were "western" and the witnesses should not see them, but this is off-topic.

An airplane! Privately owned??! And free to fly anywhere its owner wishes and see what can be seen???!! An existential threat to state security!!! A temptation to thoughtcrime!!!!

pbehn · Dec 3, 2020

XBe02Drvr said:
An airplane! Privately owned??! And free to fly anywhere its owner wishes and see what can be seen???!! An existential threat to state security!!! A temptation to thoughtcrime!!!!

Well someone did land next to Red Square in one, I believe someone did in Berlin too but cant find it in a search. Mathias Rust - Wikipedia

tyrodtom · Dec 3, 2020

Odoaker said:
Well, yes, but here's the "problem" - if the planes are to take off safely, they have to be checked somehow - and then the exercises are no surprise. Unless this unit is required to be on constant alert. As far as I know, units in the Warsaw Pact were divided into two types: "pact" units were to be able to react quickly. And the rest of the units did not have such readiness, such good discipline, and good equipment.

I don't think you've ever been in the military, and you're listening to a lot of rumors.
Maybe things were different in your part of the world, but in my part , and in my time in the military we or they kept a pretty good constant check on their equipment, right down to your boots.
They didn't just set equipment out in a field and hoped it would start when it was needed, I can't imagine any thinking military doing it any other way.

And those SAC alerts were completely random, nobody knew when they would occur.
One time we had them two days in a row, then no more for more than a month.
Good weather, bad weather, daytime, 3 in the morning, you never knew when they would occur.

pbehn · Dec 3, 2020

XBe02Drvr said:
By paying attention to wind direction and areas of probable "lift" from thermals or upslope air movement.
First, I would trim a large (1-2 M wingspan)
glider to fly in a very gentle turn, so that in still air it would circle within 300-500 M of where I launched it.
Second, I would launch from the upwind side of a large open area, so as it circled it would drift into the open area.
Third, I did a lot of running to keep the dang thing in sight when it threatened to liberate itself from my posession. I have retrieved gliders from trees, rooftops, rivers, the tops of parked semi trucks, a barnyard, and a baseball park grandstand. I was a nordic ski racer and jumper and a track and field athlete in high school, so running came naturally.
All that experience in second guessing the behavior of the air became valuable later in life when I became a flight instructor in gliders.

My brother had a set of encyclopedias, one section on aviation had plans on building simple gliders to quite complex ones. The most complex was quite large with a hinge and a spike to locate a launching string. Instead of being thrown it was launched with a tow string like a kite, the string kept the hinge and the main wings in a climb configuration, when the string went slack the wings moved into level flight trim and a cam dropped the string. It all looked great but since there is always more wind here at 50-100ft than ground level it seemed like a great way of donating some balsa and tissue to the next county.

pbehn · Dec 3, 2020

tyrodtom said:
There is no way to answer questions accurately with such wide reach.
WW1 ? WW2 ? Civilian aviation ? Military aviation ?

Then to how did they have flight operations in Stalingrad, in the winter .
Everything on the Eastern front was primitive, to start the engines in the cold they erected tents around the engine, and built a fire under them.
Sometimes the Russians thinned their oil with gasoline, set the gas on fire . .

It was also extremely cold as not experienced in the West, if you have to drain all fluids every evening from a plane and use heaters on everything to start up, keeping a wind shield ice free isn't really a big issue.

XBe02Drvr · Dec 4, 2020

pbehn said:
Instead of being thrown it was launched with a tow string like a kite, the string kept the hinge and the main wings in a climb configuration, when the string went slack the wings moved into level flight trim and a cam dropped the string.

For my larger gliders I used a tow line or a sort of slingshot consisting of two tent stakes driven in the ground and a ten foot length of flight rubber engaged in a simple L-shaped hook under the glider's CoG. I could get about 250 feet of altitude with a 300 foot line, and due to the wind's low level gradient I usually didn't have to run very much once the glider got 100 feet or so of altitude.
Location of the tow hook was critical. Too far forward, and the glider wouldn't climb very much, and too far aft would cause it to rear up and stall, dropping the tow line at low altitude, usually with impact damage to the forward fuselage and snapping the rubber bands that held the wing on. And yes, I did occasionally donate one to the next county. What the heck, balsa, tissue,and Ambroid were cheap back then.

ThomasP · Jan 1, 2021

re:"And yes, I did occasionally donate one to the next county. What the heck, balsa, tissue, and Ambroid were cheap back then."

LOLOLOL

Laminar Flow Control

More options

XBe02Drvr

2nd Lieutenant

gumbyk

Master Sergeant

pbehn

Colonel

Odoaker

Airman

Odoaker

Airman

Odoaker

Airman

XBe02Drvr

2nd Lieutenant

pbehn

Colonel

tyrodtom

Senior Master Sergeant

pbehn

Colonel

pbehn

Colonel

XBe02Drvr

2nd Lieutenant

ThomasP

Senior Master Sergeant

Users who are viewing this thread

Similar threads