Shortround6
Lieutenant General
F4E Phantoms hit over 60,000lbs max. But you weren't supposed to land at over 36,800. Dumping 22,000lbs of "stuff" in an emergency might be rather frightening for people on the ground.
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Finders keepers.F4E Phantoms hit over 60,000lbs max. But you weren't supposed to land at over 36,800. Dumping 22,000lbs of "stuff" in an emergency might be rather frightening for people on the ground.
I can also say with certainty, that right up to the very end of the war, a single P-47 (6000 kg) was not worth two Yak-3 (2700 kg) on the Eastern front. The Soviets could have had P-47s in fact and declined the offer.
I would say it is very hard to make the case that one P-47 was even worth a single Yak-3 for that Theater, to be honest.
It probably would.Over a battlefield at low altitude, a Yak_3 would have a P47D for breakfast.
It probably would.
Now how would it do against a P-47M ?
Wing of the Yak-3 was a new wing, both the t-t-c ratio and the area were reduced. If the wing of the P-47 remains the same, and just the wings are clipped, there is still the draggiest part of the wing to fight the air.How about we follow the "recipe" for the for the Yak-3 and apply it to the P-47.
Cut down the structure a bit (wings in the case of the Yak)
Cut down on the fuel tankage.
Cut down the armament a bit (early Yak-3 used one 20mm and one 12.7mm)
boost the crap out of the engine.
P-47L "Lite" clip the wings like the tips on the P-47N but without the wing root extensions.
Cut the guns to 6 and restrict the ammo to around 250-275rpg.
Install smaller fuel tank/s. Maybe 225 gallons total.
Install the Water injection system and get 2540hp out of the engine and not the 2700-2800 of the P-47M
Maybe see if there was other stuff to take out?
P-47 lite at about 12500lbs with a that 2540 hp engine and slightly better roll performance?
How about we follow the "recipe" for the for the Yak-3 and apply it to the P-47.
Cut down the structure a bit (wings in the case of the Yak)
Cut down on the fuel tankage.
Cut down the armament a bit (early Yak-3 used one 20mm and one 12.7mm)
boost the crap out of the engine.
P-47L "Lite" clip the wings like the tips on the P-47N but without the wing root extensions.
Cut the guns to 6 and restrict the ammo to around 250-275rpg.
Install smaller fuel tank/s. Maybe 225 gallons total.
Install the Water injection system and get 2540hp out of the engine and not the 2700-2800 of the P-47M
Maybe see if there was other stuff to take out?
P-47 lite at about 12500lbs with a that 2540 hp engine and slightly better roll performance?
The top speeds would be about equal up to 3,000m (10,000ft), with the P47M progressively faster above that, providing an opportunity for Luftwaffe style hit and run tactics. If the Yak gets above it, it is still in trouble.It probably would.
Now how would it do against a P-47M ?
It was just a slightly reduced Yak-9 wing (17.15 -> 14.85 m^2). They were structurally identical, and the airfoil remained the same.Wing of the Yak-3 was a new wing
The He 100 with the 'rekord' wing as the platform for the Jumo 210 (preferably G)?And let's consider an aircraft that is almost in the light interceptor category itself.
I suppose we all agree that the Bf 109 was designed and tailored as the smallest airframe for the most powerful engine. However, that engine is the DB601.
Which means that it is actually too big for the Jumo 210. I'm sure that we can't change the fuselage width (it's minimal anyway) but the Jumo 210 is lower and smaller than the DB 601 so we can reduce the fuselage height - by lowering the pilot to the bottom edge as much as possible and only the controls are under the seat (and not the fuel tank). Since the Jumo has a shorter engine, we can move it a little closer to the center, move the pilot closer (and compensate for the tank volume in the empty space behind him). Accordingly, the tail is shorter. And since the entire fuselage is smaller (lighter) we can also reduce the wings.
Jumo 210 might've probably been pushed to 3000 rpm, and it will need a better S/C (since pre-Jumo 211F, the Jumo S/Cs were bad). These two changes should bring it to circa 90% of what the Peregrine was making on 87 oct fuel (it was good for 885 HP at 15000 ft).As for the armament... Jumo 210 (albeit only early variants) could receive a central weapon (He 112 kanonenvogel) and maybe only central 1x MGFF and one 7.9 mm in each wing (if we are not arrogant and say that the MGFF is not much heavier than 7.9 mm (if we include ammunition) and that even the reduced wings can receive one for a total of 3x20 mm).
Being smaller and lighter, I suppose it should perform at least better than the Bf 109D. Not spectacular but probably quite useful in 1939-40. And maybe later if (with, say, C3 fuel) the Jumo 210 can be pushed to 1000 hp.
Although now we have to think why someone would try to do that.
How about annual radiator, we'll say ala Ju-88The He 100 with the 'rekord' wing as the platform for the Jumo 210 (preferably G)?
No surface cooling, use the beard radiator.
As you indicate, the 211F got the better S/C, who says it wasn't in works <The 210 Ha was in the works, but killed to focus on the 211.>Jumo 210 might've probably been pushed to 3000 rpm, and it will need a better S/C (since pre-Jumo 211F, the Jumo S/Cs were bad). These two changes should bring it to circa 90% of what the Peregrine was making on 87 oct fuel (it was good for 885 HP at 15000 ft).
The 210G is already fuel injected, so couple this with 3000 rpm operation and a better S/C and there is 870-900 HP at 5 km, and indeed ~1000 HP at lower altitudes via the 2-speed S/C. If this is made, even the He 100 with 'combat' wing will do.
Kill of the diesel engine development at Jumo to pay for this.
Use a "header" fuel tank in fuselage and wing root tanks ala Hurricane as per Z Zmauky move the MGs to the wingsSame if not better range with 300L of fuel than the Bf 109E with 400L, due to the lower drag, weight and HP? Might come in handy for a country that lacks fuel.
A longer-ranged fighter with 500L of fuel than the Bf 109 with the drop tank.
No worse speed nor RoC vs. the Emil.
Does not need to wait for the DB 601A.
Easier and cheaper to make than the Bf 109E, that was already easy and cheap to make.
The He112A was called the "cannon bird" because it had a 20mm cannon in each wing, not a "motorkanone".Jumo 210 (albeit only early variants) could receive a central weapon (He 112 kanonenvogel)
How about annual radiator, we'll say ala Ju-88
Then pressurize the cooling system with 50/50 ethylene glycol/water.
Does MG131 offer better compromise the MG17 or MG FF in wings - belt fed so more than 60 rds firing time/heavier round than the RCMG?
Either annular, or something like what the D.520 or the Soviet fighters had.How about annual radiator, we'll say ala Ju-88
Then pressurize the cooling system with 50/50 ethylene glycol/water.
Before we can make more power, we need to be able to cool the engine.
Arrived for the Jumo 211N historically.
As you indicate, the 211F got the better S/C, who says it wasn't in works <The 210 Ha was in the works, but killed to focus on the 211.>
Jumo 210H was scheduled to get 4 valves/cylinder - which should help with the increased rpm operation.
Skipping the surface cooling should give you the development resources at Jumo for the pressurized cooling system.
Setup production in Austria?
Does MG131 offer better compromise the MG17 or MG FF in wings - belt fed so more than 60 rds firing time/heavier round than the RCMG?
My thoughts on the annular radiators:Hypothetically, I wonder if the German obsession with annular radiators, and the increased manufacturing complexity of those, stood in the way of them developing really good finned tube style radiator cores that would also be capable of handling higher pressure?
(Once you have a high pressure capable cooling system, a 30/70 glycol/water mix might be slightly better than the 50/50, seems that's what the Brits ended up at?)
Going from MG17 in initial design to MG131 in '40 seems like reasonable step for light fighter.The MG 131 entered service only in 1940, might be a bit late for a really competitive <1000hp fighter?
I'm not sure you want to move Jumo 210 production to Poland in '38 when the factory was being repurposed for Jumo 211s. And I'm not sure about Czechoslovakia; they weren't quite as open arms to joining Germany as the Austrians were.Production can be done indeed in Austria, but also in Poland and in Czechia.