Matching Luftwaffe and Red AF Claims and Loss Times

[pabloste]

My understanding is that the Luftwaffe on the Eastern Front used European Central Time or so-called "Berlin Time" (UTC + 1 hour) to file its victory claims and losses. The Soviets used "Moscow Time" (UTC + 3 hours) to record their victories and losses. So there is a two-hour discrepancy in matching. For example, if the Luftwaffe in Ukraine accurately claimed a Soviet aircraft downed at 1400, the Soviets would record that loss as having occurred at1600. Am I correct or do I have it wrong?

 

[Denniss]

I have heard about the different time zones centered around their capital. Can't say what the exact difference is though, might be different from the current offset.
This causes a lot of confusion about exact times at certain war actions, even for something like the actual start of ww2 in europe with the german attack vs Poland.

 

[Nick Beale]

According to a National Archives readers' guide the Germans operated on Central European Time (GMT+1) or German Summer Time (GMT+2) with changeover dates as follows:

Up to 1/4/40: CET
From 1/4/40: GST
2/11/42: CET
29/3/43: GST
4/10/43: CET
3/4/44: GST
2/10/44: CET
2/4/45: GST

 

[Mike Wenger]

According to a National Archives readers' guide the Germans operated on Central European Time (GMT+1) or German Summer Time (GMT+2) with changeover dates as follows:

Up to 1/4/40: CET
From 1/4/40: GST
2/11/42: CET
29/3/43: GST
4/10/43: CET
3/4/44: GST
2/10/44: CET
2/4/45: GST

Speaking of timeline challenges, I have experienced many such problems. I've had a "dormant" book project waiting in the wings for some time regarding the Japanese raids into the Indian Ocean. Therein, I've had to use IJN, RAF, RAAF, RN, and civilian shipping records, all of which presents a rather perfect storm of problems when trying to convert all clock references to "sun time".

· The IJN (without exception) used Tokyo Time. The issue there is... what are the positions of the aircraft and/or carriers at any specific moment in time, i.e., which meridian (or time zone) have they crossed?
· RN records use Greenwich time, although they sometimes drift into local, or sun time. RAF, RAAF are the same.
· Civilian shipping is another matter as, upon departure, a ship's clock was set to the port of destination. In cases where the ships were sunk, that data can be extremely difficult to unearth.

In other words, "What time is it, REALLY?" is the first question to be answered. I concocted an Excel spreadsheet with all manner of formulas to get everything converted, but it is still something of an inexact science.

 

[Dimlee]

My understanding is that the Luftwaffe on the Eastern Front used European Central Time or so-called "Berlin Time" (UTC + 1 hour) to file its victory claims and losses. The Soviets used "Moscow Time" (UTC + 3 hours) to record their victories and losses. So there is a two-hour discrepancy in matching. For example, if the Luftwaffe in Ukraine accurately claimed a Soviet aircraft downed at 1400, the Soviets would record that loss as having occurred at1600. Am I correct or do I have it wrong?

About the Soviets. As I remember, the Red Army used Moscow Time until it advanced into foreign territories in 1944. There was a change to local time at least once, and probably twice, for those who moved further west. I'm sure that VVS synchronised their clocks with the Army.

 

[Denniss]

I doubt the german military time used summer/winter switches like civilians would do. That would make military operations very hard to coordinate during these switchovers

 

[Nick Beale]

I doubt the german military time used summer/winter switches like civilians would do. That would make military operations very hard to coordinate during these switchovers

The RAF, Luftwaffe and USAAF all used summer and winter times. Hence the mental arithmetic needed to match up each side's reports of particular actions.