Me 262 B3+BR Paint Scheme and Markings

Discussion in 'Aircraft Markings and Camouflage' started by JonOlsen, Sep 10, 2015.

  1. JonOlsen

    JonOlsen Member

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    #1 JonOlsen, Sep 10, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2015
    Hello everybody,

    In my 1/72 Academy kit for the Me 262, there are decals for an Me 262 that served in KG(J)54. The profile in the booklet features a white diagonal stripe on this Me 262's fuselage. The stripe also has a thin red border. The profile suggests a base color of RLM 82 with somewhat streaky mottles of RLM 83.

    Does anyone have knowledge of this particular Me 262 and/or any suggestions about its paint scheme? Also, I would love to know any information about Me 262s that had diagonal stripes (of any color) painted on them, including comments about colors and individual markings.

    Thanks!

    >Jon
     
  2. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    Going through the net I found this. The profile caption suggests the RLM74/75/76 for her camo.

    bdklw7wwde7rjtbte.jpg

    bdkltka2shlj2z7rm.jpg
     
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  3. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    However the FalkeEins' site shows the two pictures of the kite that was flown by Ofw.Friedrich Gentzsch of the 7./KG(J)54. The plane was marked with the code B3+BC according to the profile below. The camo colours are suggested as the RLM81/82/76. The diagonal strip was yellow according to that.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    7_KGJ54.jpg
     
  4. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    #4 Wurger, Sep 10, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2015
    Here are two more shots of other Me-262s of the squadron. At least one of them seems to have the diagonal strip yellow too. So the Academy might be wrong with the white strip. According to the Kagero book , he second image shows Schwalbe W.Nr.111620 B3+GR of the 7./KG(J)54.

    Me_262_A-1a_of_KG_J_54_damaged_at_Neuburg_Donau_-_summer_45.jpg

    Me_262_A-1as_B3_GR_delivered_Mar_45_to_KG_Jagd_54_at_Neuburg_Donau.jpg

    The picture source: the Internet.
     
  5. JonOlsen

    JonOlsen Member

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    Thank you, Wurger. :) Those are some very nice photos you've posted and great information. Gentsch's "B3+BC" is definitely good-looking. I'm a bit confused about the nose cap colors as I've seen a few different depictions in different profiles. As for "B3+BR," I'm now even more confused! I'm certainly intrigued by the profile that depicts it painted in the RLM greys...I wasn't expecting that! So now I'm wondering not only about the color of the stripe but also the overall camouflage...

    >Jon
     
  6. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    #6 Wurger, Sep 11, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2015
    Looking at these pictures above I would say the nose cap was of the yellow colour with the white ring. In B&W images the yellow is usually darker than the white unless the foto negative was of the orthochromatic type. The yellow with a such negative is as dark as the blue. So... comparing the nose cap with the strip seen under the cockpit I would say it was yellow but not white. But it is my opinion only. Here two profiles of Schwalbes you are interesten in. One is found in Mushroom Yellow Series book and the second one in AJ-Press publication for Me 262. The camo for the B3+GR is stated as the RLM74/76 but I would say the additional RLM75 was as possible as the overall RLM74. The second camo for the B3+BR is mentioned as the RLM81/76 with mottling of RLM81/82 what seems to be very likely. The diagonal strip is white for her but the book was published some time ago and it might have been the "remnant" of previous reditions found in older books.

    Anyway there is no evidence the strip was white or yedllow and he camo colours were of the different set. As a result you may paint your model as you want. Nobody can tell it is wrong. Personally I would follow the set for the B3+GR because it seems to be more likely for the Schwalbes. However the one in the second pic of post #3 looks darker and the RLM81 could be as well.

    Me262 WNr111620_a.jpg

    Me262 B3-BR_a.jpg
     
  7. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    And BTW... I''ve done a little experiment with the second pic in the post #3 for you. I cut out the nose and rotated it horizontally in order to move the clipped part closer to the area with the diagonal strip. What do you think about the colours there? I would say the colour tone of the strip is closer the front one of the cap than to the white ring there. Am I right? Also there aren't any traces of the red edges of the strip as the Academy offers with the decal sheet.

    KGJ546_Gentzsch_c.jpg
     
  8. JonOlsen

    JonOlsen Member

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    #8 JonOlsen, Sep 12, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2015
    Hey Wurger,

    Thanks for those profiles and for the close-up shot of "B3+BC"'s nose. :) I also see no red edges around the yellow stripe. Before you enlarged the photo of "B3+BC" and rotated the nose I hadn't realized that there were 4 colored rings on the nose. I count 4 colors, assuming that the black ring is separating two different colors (both of which are VERY light and appear almost the same). Does it also look to you that there are 4 colors? I agree that the nose cap is probably yellow. Do you suppose there might be some RLM 25 green on the nose? A few profiles I've seen indicate the use of RLM 25. In any case, the letters "BC" were supposedly painted in RLM 25.

    By the way, I found an online book review for a Japo book called "Me 262 and Arado 234 Final Operations. Luftwaffe Over Czech Territory 1945 Vol. 4 Book Review by Rob Baumgartner The review features a few low-resolution scans of pages from the book. One of these pages shows profiles for two Me 262s with diagonal stripes. :) Any knowledge about these Me 262s? Alternatively, can anyone find a way to make the content on the page more readable? I'd love to know what the commentary says.

    I'd still love to find out more about "B3+BR"... Japo.png

    >Jon
     
  9. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    #9 Wurger, Sep 12, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2015
    As far as the colours of the nose cap are considered ... I would say there were three ones. The front part was of the yellow , then a thin black ring and then the white one. However the black thin strip between the yellow and white can be the panel line that was there. The back ring that looks like being of the fourth colour seems to be actually a part of the camo colour there. The appearance of the area could be a result of using masking tape for applying of the white. Therefore the area seems to be more shiny giving the optical illusion.

    And a note here.. the profile in my post #3 shows the nose cap of white/green colours. It isn't quite nice seen because of the page margin bending. However I think it is wrong rendition.
     
  10. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    #10 Wayne Little, Sep 12, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2015
    I have the JaPo book will dig it out and let you know what the captions say.

    B3+BC is a late model Leipheim built 262 and would be 81/82/76
     
  11. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    #11 Wurger, Sep 12, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2015

    The bottom one seems to be coded B3+IB ( the letter I is green). The code of the top one looks like B3+GT.
     
  12. JonOlsen

    JonOlsen Member

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    Thank you very much, Wurger and Wayne Little. :) I'm looking forward to finding out what the captions say...
     
  13. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    And additional note.. I would like to pay your attention to the cowling of the air intakes of the Jumo jet engines. The starboard engine nacelle had it in the NMF ( natural metal finish ) while the port on was painted with the camo colours.
     
  14. JonOlsen

    JonOlsen Member

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    Thanks, Wurger. That definitely is an important detail. Regarding natural metal, there appears to be a "stain" in front of the windscreen and on the port side of "B3+BC." This "stain" is visible in one of the the photos you've posted and also in the profile. I'm assuming that the paintwork here has worn off and that this is bare metal. Thoughts?

    >Jon
     
  15. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    #15 Wurger, Sep 13, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2015
    Yep.. there is a such stain seen. It has been imitated in a profile I found in he Mushroom book ( see below ). However I don't think it is correct. What would be a reason for appearing of bare metal there, especially of such dimensions ? Undoubtedly it was of different shade than the starboard cowling of the engine nacelle. I would say it is an effect of spilling or spillage of the fuel. There was a fuel inlet at the fusleage top , in front of the cockpit windshield. I'm not sure about how much the fuel could have affected the paint coat but it doesn't seem to be damaged deep , especially , up to the bare metal. I would say it could change the tinge of the dope a little bit or could make it more shining ( glossy ). It can be noticed that there still can be seen scratches of the coat that reveal the metal under that at the area. Because the spot looks like being wet I would say the stain was glossy with minor changing of the colour tone ( unless with no it at all ) and because of being "fatty" on that cloudy and rainy day. Generally it can be said it's the light trick (reflection) on a such "gloss and fatty" surface, IMHO.

    Me-262 B3_BC_4.jpg

    7_KGJ54a.jpg

    7_KGJ54b.jpg
     
  16. JonOlsen

    JonOlsen Member

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    Wurger, your theory about the stain being caused by spilled fuel makes perfect sense to me. You have me convinced. :)

    >Jon
     
  17. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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    My pleasure.
     
  18. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    Jon, the 2 halves of the page from the Japo Book,should be more readable...:D
     

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  19. JonOlsen

    JonOlsen Member

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    Wayne Little, thank you very much. :)
     
  20. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    No problem Sir! :D
     
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