Me-262

Anonymous · Nov 24, 2004

cheddar cheese said:
I agree that more 190's would have been better, but you cannot say the 262 didnt play its part in the war. Also in the long run, if it wasnt for the 262 then I dont think a lot of the modern jets we have today would even exist.

Well, the move to Jet power was underway, I'm not sure the 262 was the big influence, but certainly German efforts were a big impetus. I think that FW 1111 (or whatever it was) really had more influence, as it was the influence for the Mig-15.

I am saying the 262 played its part in WWII. It hurt Germany! Any time a country takes its eyes off reality and devotes so much resources to wonder weapons that they cannot produce enough servicable weapons, it is making a blunder.

The Me-262 should have stayed in the experimental and testing stage another 2-3 years, while German industry developed the base technology to mass produce jet engines that worked. I figure each Me-262 airframe laid down represents at least two FW190 or three Bf109 aiframes that did not get built. Of the 2500 Me262 airframes laid down, 1500 or so were actually completed and about 300 actually saw combat service. This is not a wise utilization of scarce resources. Not only that, but engineering talent spent on the 262 could have been used to improve other German fighters and bombers.

=S=

Lunatic

cheddar cheese · Nov 25, 2004

Actually youve got a pretty good point on this, I duly oblige to agree with you 8)

Anonymous · Nov 26, 2004

cheddar cheese said:
Actually youve got a pretty good point on this, I duly oblige to agree with you 8)

I just want you to consider it m8. The same can be said for most of the V weapons. The truth is that all the German V weapons did little for their chances in the war. Only had their nuclear bomb program bore fruit before that of the USA (and Germany was not even close to being able to make a true fission weapon) would have made a difference. It is speculated that Germany might have used dirty bombs carried by V2's, but I think if they had then Britain would have used nerve gas, and Europe would have been one big graveyard, and neither side would have won, but Germany would have suffered worse (there'd probably be no Germans left).

While Germany was building stupid weapons like the V2 rocket, the USA (with a big boost from early British radar research) developed and deployed the VT proximity fuse. Had the Germans had a comparable proximity fuse I think it would have made more difference than all the V weapons and King Tigers and Me262's put together - the Allied Bombing offensive would have been over in a couple of months.

=S=

Lunatic

cheddar cheese · Nov 26, 2004

FW 1111

Dont you mean the Messerschmitt P.1101?

Anonymous · Nov 26, 2004

cheddar cheese said:
FW 1111

Click to expand...

Dont you mean the Messerschmitt P.1101?

I got the numbers confused with the Me, been a long time since I looked at these hypothetical Luftwaffe' jets.

No I really meant the FW183:

http://www.luft46.com/fw/ta183-i.html
http://www.luft46.com/

Which to me looks an awful lot like the mig 15:

=S=

Lunatic

cheddar cheese · Nov 26, 2004

So does the P.1101 8)

the lancaster kicks ass · Nov 27, 2004

no it doesn't...............

cheddar cheese · Nov 27, 2004

It does...

the lancaster kicks ass · Nov 27, 2004

doesn't..............

cheddar cheese · Nov 27, 2004

Does - that one doesnt have complet body panels.

the lancaster kicks ass · Nov 28, 2004

i'm fully aware of that, i realise the engine would be covered, but it still doesn't.............

cheddar cheese · Nov 28, 2004

Why doesnt it look like it.

Anonymous · Nov 28, 2004

Flight line is different. Tail is of traditional layout.

cheddar cheese · Nov 29, 2004

Both planes bear a resemblance though, thats clear.

Amish Eskimo Ninja · Nov 29, 2004

does anyone here know how many total kills 262's got. I need it for a history project. Tell me the source you got it from too please. It would be a huge help if anyone does.

Anonymous · Nov 30, 2004

Amish Eskimo Ninja said:
does anyone here know how many total kills 262's got. I need it for a history project. Tell me the source you got it from too please. It would be a huge help if anyone does.

I don't think I've seen a figure like that. However, the following page shows all 262 Aces, and represents the lions share of 262 kills, searching through the site may yeild more info.

http://www.luftwaffe.cz/dusen.html

The Werk Number database entires might also yeild figures, and you might contact the archivists and ask them, they might know the total kills for the 262 (If anyone would, I'd think it'd be them):

http://www.stormbirds.com/werknummer/

Here are some more links to help you, I've not read every page of every site so maybe you will find the info if you are looking for it:

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~fiveds/ananian.html
http://www.worldhistory.com/wiki/M/Messerschmitt-Me-262.htm
http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/AC/aircraft/Messerschmitt-Me262/me262_info/m262_info.htm
http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/aero/aircraft/me262.htm
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/me262.html
http://www.cebudanderson.com/262.htm

Sorry I cannot find an exact figure for you.

Good luck,

=S=

Lunatic

Nonskimmer · Nov 30, 2004

That's quite a selection. Thanks, Lunatic.

Anonymous · Nov 30, 2004

Nonskimmer said:
That's quite a selection. Thanks, Lunatic.

YW. I'd contact the author's of the first two links and ask them for the figures you want. Very good chance they know the answer w/o looking it up if this data is in fact known.

Unfortunately, more than half the 262 links I've saved over the years are now dead.

Lunatic

Nonskimmer · Nov 30, 2004

RG_Lunatic said:
No I really meant the FW183:

http://www.luft46.com/fw/ta183-i.html
http://www.luft46.com/

Click to expand...

Which to me looks an awful lot like the mig 15:

=S=

Lunatic

That's right.
To my knowledge, none of the Ta 183 prototypes actually took to the air, until by the Soviets well after war's end.
It was only then that the design flaws of the airframe were discovered and rectified (lowering of the tailplanes, wing fences added, etc.), and the VK-1 engine of the Mig-15 was little more than a "Russianized" British Rolls-Royce.

Anonymous · Nov 30, 2004

Nonskimmer said:
That's right.
To my knowledge, none of the Ta 183 prototypes actually took to the air, until by the Soviets well after war's end.
It was only then that the design flaws of the airframe were discovered and rectified (lowering of the tailplanes, wing fences added, etc.), and the VK-1 engine of the Mig-15 was little more than a "Russianized" British Rolls-Royce.

The Mig-15 was seriously flawed anyway. It rolled poorly at speed and it could not break the bottom of the transonic mach region even in a dive.

Me-262

Could the Me-262 have won the war for the Axis?

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No

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