Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
I always thought that automatic LE slats were for slow speeds, not all speeds and definitely not at high speed.
As for the high AR of the 262's wing, it would certainly have a lower induced drag (but a higher parasite drag). However, higher AR wings have a lower roll rate and putting the heavy engines on the wing doesn't do you any favours on the roll rate, only helping to slow it down.
The best place for the engines is in the centre of the plane, no question and it's also causes less drag. I believe the Russians instead of copying the 262 came up with an aircraft which had two engines in the fuselage because of the reduced drag.
This bit is a guess on my part, but my guess is that the LE slats were to assist in the problem of loss of lift that happens with swept wings at slow speed. With a swept wing the airflow tends to be 'swept' to the wing tips instead of going straight over the wings. This causes a loss of lift at slow speed and one of the things that the LE slats will do is assist with the slow speed handling.
The 262 was built for speed not agility and the Germans would have found this problem out in tests, had considerable experience in LE slats and would have known how to address the problem
Glider Bill,
The Me-262 F-86 were both fitted with the LE automatic slats because of a desire to improve slow high speed maneuverability in the horizontal plane. That they lower the stall speed and increase the controllability of the a/c close to the stall is why they're also very useful at landing take off.
Understood.
Having said that, Edgar Schmeud said it (F-86 LE slats) was primarily the mandatory design feature to keep the F-86 able to avoid tip stalls at practical design landing speeds. It specifically was not introduced to improve high speed turn capability
The LE slats were a bonus for manuever but unlikely to surface on the 86 had they not had the problems they had with low speed safety.[/B]
This was first USAF swept wing design in production fighter and drew heavily from Me 262 studies.
I think the Yakovlev Yak-25 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia was the last fighter (albeit an interceptor) with outboard nacelle-mounted engines. Yakovlev Yak-25 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
QUOTE]
You are right. Instead of 1950 I should have stated 1951 as last time a twin nacelle jet fighter was designed.
And about the LE slats, they were generaly retracted at high speeds, even often in maneuvers, but durring hard turns the LE of the wing would loose pressure, allowing the slats to extend, so turning would have been marginally improved by them.
The USAAF compared the P-80 and Me 262 concluding: "Despite a difference in gross weight of nearly 2,000 lb (907 kg), the Me 262 was superior to the P-80 in acceleration, speed and approximately the same in climb performance. The Me 262 apparently has a higher critical Mach number, from a drag standpoint, than any current Army Air Force fighter."[7] The Army Air Force also tested an example of the Me 262A-1a/U3 (US flight evaluation serial FE-4012), an unarmed photoreconnaissance version, which was fitted with a fighter nose and given an overall smooth finish. It was used for performance comparisons against the P-80. During testing in May-August 1946, the aircraft completed eight flights spanning four hours and 40 minutes. Testing was discontinued after four engine changes were required during the course of the tests, culminating in two single-engine landings.
Glider,
First of all the sweep of the Me-262's wing is no more than 17.3 degree's, so I don't know how you came up with the idea that this considerably increased induced drag because of greater upwash, esp. when you consider that a high wing taper ratio, as that of the P-80's wing, has the exact same effect. So can I ask what's your point ?
Also the higher AR of the Me-262's wing more than makes up for the sweep of the wing in terms of reducing induced drag.
Any swept wing suffers from increased induced drag, it cannot be avoided as its part of the dynamics. Straight wings don't have the same problem.
The increased drag comes from the greater upwash, its not my idea, its aerodynamics.
As for the higher AR of the 262 more than making up the difference of the increased induced drag, I don't know as it would need information I don't have and to be honest, I doubt if you have the information either.
The 262 doesn't have a significantly high AR, so my personal guess is that it wouldn't, but I admit that is a guess. If you have the detail to support your statement I am more than happy to go with your comment
Re the high wing taper ratio of the P80 having the same effect on the Induced Drag I agree. However, if the question is does it have a greater or lesser degree than the swept wing on the 262 again, I don't know.
Both the P-80 and 262 used Laminar Flow airfoils though, right?