Meanwhile .. in Red Square

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St George is the patron saint of Moscow, when you walk into the Kremlin there is a relief carving above the entrance.
 
It seems St. George being the patron Saint of countries like England, Georgia, Malta, Portugal, and likely others too along with some cities too, makes him seem 'Saintly claimed' wise, to be as common as 'Red Lion' or 'Kings/Queens Head' pubs are...

A shame that the Putinocrasy, the Pootinite followers and Sh*tbox apologists might well use St.George as 'religiously moral argument' to grant and foster support from those silently still on the fence in Russia - remember over there it is illegal punishable offence to insult military veterans also the newer officially sanctioned revisions of history too.

Painting an old bear (that's had a new haircut and claw trim), into a corner while trying to flick its love spuds with a wet towel can produce unforseen effects (sorry almost made a Rimmer-ism) ...even though that bear did stumbled into the corner once as it sobered up from a bender on Yeltsin brand of rebadged Glasnost wodka.
 
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Mr. Putin's answer .....

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KHCNk9BYy4

.... no doubt about it, Putin's got 'game'!!!

.... but the answer to him is valid (tho not PC) .... "we in the West fear you and your country and your systems because we have seen what you are capable of ... and all of it flies in the face of 1,000 years worth of Western political, social and economic values .... which you and your government have failed and refuse to implement ... so the US and our NATO allies will continue to maintain our watch on you and expend blood and treasure .... Mr Putin ... because it's common sense to anticipate danger" .
 
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.... this is more likely .... good-stick-to-the ribs US L-L rations
 

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Let's not forget all the Russian aviation firsts including the surprise landing of the ANT-25 in the USA, Korea, Sputnik, or Afganistan. The Russians/Soviets have been innovators for many decades in aviation and weapons.

Nationalism is fine until it dulls your sense of wariness to the continuing threat. I'd MUCH rather make them friends than continuing to see them as enemies. That assumes they can follow their agreements ... and so can WE. I'm not all that sure why we are "us" and they are "them" at this time other than by tradition. What I need is real statement of what our two purposes and ideologies are rather than propaganda.

I wish myself good luck with that ...

I also remember that Russia has been invaded and we haven't. This MAY have something to do with their position. We might recall the USA suffered 418,500 war deaths in WWII and the Soviet Union suffered 24 million. That's about 57 times more and that ends to color your national sense of self protection, even decades on from the event. Had WE been invaded, we might STILL have those feelings. The Russians have long memories that are very different from ours in terms of impact on the coutry.

When Serbia and Croatia came out from under Soviet rule, they promptly resumed WWI. We didn't seem to act surprised at that during the event. Why are we surprised about the Russian opinions?
 
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".....What I need is real statement of what our two purposes and ideologies are rather than propaganda."

THERE ISN'T A SOUNDBITE WAITING TO GIVE YOU AN ANSWER .... Greg .... but I suggest you read the history of Western governance from Magna Carta to the Marshal Plan .... the difference in basic human/commercial/social values is unmistakable

edit: as I earlier posted re: Putin Crushes Smartass BBC journo/pundit:

.... no doubt about it, Putin's got 'game'!!!

.... but the answer to him is valid (tho not PC) .... "we in the West fear you and your country and your systems because we have seen what you are capable of ... and all of it flies in the face of 1,000 years worth of Western political, social and economic values .... which you and your government have failed and refuse to implement ... so the US and our NATO allies will continue to maintain our watch on you and expend blood and treasure .... Mr Putin ... because it's common sense to anticipate danger" .
 
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I know my history, Mike. I'm not very sure the current Russian plans have much to do with Czarist Russia or the former Soviet Union. I believe they're driven more by different motives entirely than they used to be.

I think they USED to be driven by the Communist Party. I don't think so anymore. Different reasons now unless I just misread it entirely.

This isn't a political forum and I don't want a political argument. I was just wondering about the old us-versus-them attitude and wondering whether we could find some common ground. I was not and AM not advocating surrender or relaxing our desire for world freedom. Freedom also implies being free to side with a nation other than us.
 
The long and the short of it, Greg - and it's history, not politics, is that the Estonians have reason to fear any activity from east of the Narva River be it under the Red star or the Imperial Eagle.
 
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