- Thread starter
-
- #21
The MiG-29A and S was not exported to 30 nations, but to 17, a lot of them bought circa 20 examples total, some even less than 10 examples, and often second-hand pieces.
Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
...
Don't get me wrong, it [MiG-29] is an excellent aircraft, and highly affordable for less wealthy countries - exported to 30 nations,
...
It's a little sad how MiG lost favour with the Putin regime, losing almost all domestic fighter business save a few MiG-35s to the Sukhoi Su-27/35 and now the upcoming Su-57.The MiG-29 in its first guise was no cheap and cheerful but top of the line with the latest Soviet tech.
2 points - the AIM-9 has up to a 22 mile range. "Beyond Visual Range" is defined as combat beyond 20 miles. By definition the AIM-9 is a BVR missile although not always advertised as such.See here - the SAC sheet for the F-16A Block 15. The only AA missiles listed are Sidewinders.
The F-15 and F-16 were concurrent designs and the F-16 in it very earliest variants, not later designs, were not given Sparrows. The F-18 however was.
The reason given is that if the F-16 was not given AIM-7 Sparrows because then it would overlap with the F-15 and since the Viper was cheaper than the Eagle, it may be seen as a cost effective alternative.
Politics and USAF deliberately undergunned the F-16 so as not to give F-15 critics an easy argument point.
No idea if this was true as I wasn't there!
2 points - the AIM-9 had up to a 22 mile range. "Beyond Visual Range" is defined as combat beyond 20 miles. Block 5 and 15 aircraft were quickly modified to Block 20 standards and carried the AIM-120.
AIM-120 went into service in 1991 - nine years after the MiG-29 entered service.
Yes it did, but the original comment - "The F-16 was deliberately not given BVR in case it was seen as an F-15 rival. The USAF wanted the Eagle and didn't want the possibility of the Viper been seen as equal." As shown, that was not the case.
Effective combat range - would an AIM-9L hit anything at 20 miles? Probably not. Can it fire an AIM-9 up to 20 miles. I think so. Was the F-16 not a BVR fighter in its original form? Arguable, but then again as shown, it wasn't supposed to be a dedicated air to air fighter. Did the F-16 carry BVR weapons? Yes! Was the F-16 "undergunned" for political reasons? I doubt it.Unfortunately, Wikipedia does not give ranges per version.
SAC sheet for the AIM-9L (the most widely in-service version in 1980s) gives 13+28=41 kft range (less than 8 miles), providing the target uses afterburner but still flies at 0.9M and manuvering at 5G, with launching aircraft flying at 0.9M. Same source gives detection range of the IR sensor of 19 kft (3.6 miles).
Effective combat range - would an AIM-9L hit anything at 20 miles? Probably not. Can it fire an AIM-9 up to 20 miles. I think so. Was the F-16 not a BVR fighter in its original form? Arguable, but then again as shown, it wasn't supposed to be a dedicated air to air fighter. Did the F-16 carry BVR weapons? Yes!
Was the F-16 "undergunned" for political reasons? I doubt it.
. And it was deliberately not given a BVR capability.
The MiG-29A and S was not exported to 30 nations, but to 17, a lot of them bought circa 20 examples total, some even less than 10 examples, and often second-hand pieces.
That's what you're pulling me up on? Ok. Whether they operated five, ten or even one, they are still operators. You're right though, the MiG-29 has not been exported to 30 nations, but has had a lot more operators, My bad...
List of Mikoyan MiG-29 operators - Wikipedia
Another issue with the early MiG-29s was their chronic unreliability compared to other jets of the era. This is another reason the VVS doesn't have that much enthusiasm for them.
Here's an interesting and revealing article that covers what some of the Western fighterpilots evaluating the ex-Luftwaffe examples had to say about the type.
"In 1996, Fred "Spanky" Clifton became the first American MiG-29 exchange pilot with JG 73. A Weapons School graduate in the F-16, with thousands of hours in F-15s, F-5s, and MiG-29s as well, he turns an analyst's cold eye on the Fulcrum. "It's a great [basic fighter maneuvers] machine," he says. "But of the four fighters, it's easily the worst-handling of any I flew." Before becoming a Fulcrum driver, Clifton had his first pilot-scholar assignment as an aggressor, flying F-5 Tigers in intensive training aimed at honing the skills of experienced pilots against known threats, including the MiG-29. When he joined JG 73, it was a unique opportunity to judge the Stateside syllabus. "I got to see if what I was teaching as an aggressor pilot was correct," he says. "Much of what we ascertained through intelligence was indeed accurate." Yes, the Fulcrum was a highly capable dogfighter, and its ability to fire a shot regardless of where the nose was pointed was impressive. (The Russians lost the aiming advantage by 2002, according to Fred Clifton, when the U.S. military fielded the AIM-9X missile and the Joint Helmet-mounted Cueing System.) But it had low fuel capacity, a head-down, knob- and switch-congested cockpit, a so-so radar, and not much versatility: It wasn't designed to do much besides intercept and shoot down adversaries who were flying not far from its airfield. Eastern bloc pilots were trained to slavishly follow ground controllers, so the Fulcrum's systems, including its head-up display, were not highly developed, and the situational awareness the pilots got was very limited."
Article here: The Truth About the MiG-29 | Military Aviation | Air & Space Magazine