More proof that the P-39 rules! 😂
- Thread starter BlackSheep
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GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The Corvair was actually a sound, good performing machine. It was no more dangerous than any other American car on the road at the time.
The only issue with the pre-67 models, was the difference between the front and rear tire pressures, which had to be strictly followed.
Nader's crusade against it was ridiculous.
The only issue with the pre-67 models, was the difference between the front and rear tire pressures, which had to be strictly followed.
Nader's crusade against it was ridiculous.
I would disagree. The problem of the first generation was the suspension design which Chevrolet tried to compensate for through the use of tire pressure differential.
manta22
Banned
The Corvair was a rear-engine design. The later models were not bad handling at all. If you could drive a VW Beetle, you could drive an early Corvair. Ralph Nader was a publicity-seeking lawyer who saw an opportunity to make $$ off his propaganda.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Another feature of the Corvair, that some people had difficulties with, was the Corvair's tight steering: it was 3.2 turns lock to lock. Most American cars took more turns lock to lock, meaning that an unaware driver would over steer since they weren't used to the response.
My '62 Nova has a Corvair steering box in it - the Saginaw box and column is a straight swap.
My '62 Nova has a Corvair steering box in it - the Saginaw box and column is a straight swap.
- Thread starter
- #66
BlackSheep
Banned
- 443
- May 31, 2018
As I stated in my reply, I believe the intent of the writer was to highlight individual Aces several times over and not the total amount of kills by Soviet pilots while flying P-39s.
Btw, the last recorded aerial kill during WW2 by a Soviet pilot was one flying in a P-39.
I got to use my uncle's 61 Corvair on my first leave from the USAF. 19 years old, thought I could drive the wheels off anything.
Learned about snap-oversteer one rainy day on a tight turn.
I used the whole road to get it back under control.
There was no wreck mainly because no one else was on the road.
GregP
Major
My dad had a Black Corvair Spyder convertible with white top and red leather interior. The turbocharger made it move out pretty strongly..
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GregP
Major
Hey mods!
Something wrong with the server. Can't modify a post and haven't been able to for more than a day. If I try to edit a post, I get a server error, not an error from my PC..
Something wrong with the server. Can't modify a post and haven't been able to for more than a day. If I try to edit a post, I get a server error, not an error from my PC..
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GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The turbocharged Monza/Corsair models were beasts!
Reluctant Poster
Staff Sergeant
- 1,466
- Dec 6, 2006
The original Corvair had the sometimes lethal swing axel which was problematic in all sorts of cars included the VW beetle and the car the beetle was copied from, the Tatra 87. Later versions of the Corvair used the much better 4 joint independent rear suspension.
GregP
Major
Hi Graugeist!
It was fun! Not big-block torque fun, but fun nonetheless. I wish maybe Ralph Nader had just gone into some career other than screwing with everyone.
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Greetings GrauGeist and Manta22,
I understand that Nader can be a polarizing figure, but I would like to offer a countering opinion. First off, Nader's book Unsafe at Any Speed was a critical look at the automotive industry in general and the lack of value of passenger safety the industry placed on design and profit. If you haven't read it, the common perception is that it is entirely about the Corvair. That is not the case. Only the first chapter is dedicated to the Corvair and draws heavily on data contained on lawsuits against the vehicle. ( I went it checked before writing this, at the time the book was written there were over 100 lawsuits over safety concerns) The remainder of the book deals with other issues related to vehicle safety that the industry was aware of, but had valued as working against profitability. At the time of publication, General Motors began an aggressive and exhaustive public relations campaign to smear Nader's reputation. This was later admitted by the head of GM. Much of the public's perception of Nader comes from that campaign which has lingering effects today. Regardless of your opinion, the lasting effect of Unsafe at Any Speed is the creation of federal agencies focused on safety improvements for passenger vehicles and the creation of the US Department of Transportation and the agencies that would be consolidated in the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration. The book is not perfect and continues to receive scrutiny today, often funded by the transportation industry, however, I believe we all can agree that the automotive industry has shown since the publication of the book that it does not always act in the best interest of the passenger over profit; the early Pinto and Ford Explorer tire inflation issues come to mind.
Here is a wiki link to Unsafe at Any Speed. Unsafe at Any Speed - Wikipedia
Before transferring to the Chrysler Missile Plant, my father was a test driver for both Ford and Chrysler in the late 50's and early 60's. Based on his experience, every car we owned had seatbelts, headrests, and five point harnesses for kids. He was pretty opinionated, but I never heard him fault Nader and later we discussed how the auto industry had well documented data on safety features that was offered as "extras" but was heavily downplayed.
Consumer Advocacy is an important mission and often the advocate is subjected to intense public relations counter campaigns. I posted the Corvair video as I found some humor in the optimism of the video similar to the advocacy of the P-39 and was not intending to discuss or introduce Nader and Unsafe at Any Speed into this thread. I do think its important to keep in mind that there was a larger mission to that book that had significant and lasting impact on the health and well being of all American drivers and passengers. We should also remember, that at the time of writing and publication that there was a significant number of lawsuits filed against GM over the safety of the vehicle that were brought by individuals around the country.
manta22
Banned
Nader was a zealot who couldn't even drive. He saw an opportunity to make $$ and to get publicity for himself and his "cause". The high price of everything these days is largely due to the cost of liability insurance to protect against predatory lawyers. If you think I hold lawyers in very low regard, you are right!
GregP
Major
I still wish Nader had gone away before opening his mouth. I was there and the stride made by the AMerican auto industry came largely as a result of almost going broke when Detroit's best came up sadly lacking compared with Japanese cars. The Outboard motor industry had the same wakeup call and many didn't survive.
Nader's medling has resulted in cars that are really no longer affordable. If I could roll back Nader, I would, even forcibly. There's a LOR wrong with the industry today. A decent amount of that comes from Nader.
I have a friend who still races a Corvair. His car drives VERY well, thank you, and is still not a lot of money to own and operate. My 2019 Ford Mustang GT 6-speed is a joy to drive, but was WAY too expensive when compared with a 1969 Mustang, which I'd still acquire new if I could. I could buy 17.08 1965 Corvairs for what I paid for my 2019 Mustang GT. It's a great car, don;t get me wrong, but not 17.358 times as great.
GregP and Manta22,
We will disagree on this. FWIW, while the common view is that Nader made lots of money by being a consumer advocate, the truth is that he did not. We should be cautious about misplacing altruistic motivations for improving vehicle safety with corporations. (Think 737 Max) US car makers did make great strides in quality control due to outside pressure from foreign car makers, however, the same cannot be said for vehicle safety improvements. Like US manufacturers, foreign car makers had to meet US safety requirements and were forced to redesign their vehicles accordingly. Yes, vehicles are more expensive today but not all of that can be attributed to the requirements for safer vehicles. Greater performance technology and material life contribute a larger portion to the cost of a vehicle.
GregP
Major
As you say, we'll have to agree to disagree about Nader. I give him a big thumbs down and always will, along with Hanoi Jane Fonda.
No it's a 100 times as great. New cars, well European and Japanese cars start rain, hail or shine, have waaay more performance while using less fuel, require less servicing, don't let the rain leak in or drop oil everywhere and are in every way better than a 1950-60's vehicle. I can buy a European turbo diesel 4wd that would shit all over an American 1950-70's muscle car under every scenario right off the showroom floor, I grew up with old style carb engines with points and plugs, If you want to go back to rolly polly handling thirsty vehicles that refuse to start when it rains go for it, me, I'm happy to pay today prices for a car with 5 years warranty that works.
