Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
Resp: More likely Operator error.Looks like your computer has an echo problem, Nw!
Con't:Resp: More likely Operator error.
NOFORN means what it says. And we all thought PIC meant "Pilot in Command" ZZZZTT! Wrong! Means "Pricks In Charge".Con't:
I would also like to leave you something to think about, as I have over the years since it occurred. Sometime around 2008-2009, a USAF Major at a FOB (forward operating base) in the Middle East received a 'Classified' message about enemy activity in a certain geographical area. It just so happens that a British ground forces were about to depart for this same area. The message at that was not releasable to outside US forces. However, the Major left the secured classified building, where he approached the Commander of the British forces about to deploy. Handing the message to the Commander, he said: 'Sir, I think you need to read this!" As a result, the British suffered very few casualties that day. As for the USAF Major, he was immediately 'Court Marshalled,'.
I have always wondered, if the positions of the countrymen had been reversed, would the actions of those involved have been the same?
Navalwarrior, GWOT fr 2001 - 1212.
The Spitfire might have been in it's own way: While a remarkable airplane, more German bombers were blipped out by Hurricanes than Spits
I remember reading about Captain Harry Kane, he was serving in the catering corps of the British cowards division, seconded to provide holistic and emotional support to USA forces in the Middle East. However when the station came under attack from Russian backed forces Capt. Harry proved he was no shrinking violet. In a jiffy he strapped an ironing board to each arm and flapped his way up to 20,000ft (being an ex cub scout he only ironed on NACA profiles). By dropping the grenades he was carrying under his arm pits he wiped out the attacking force of SU-57s and saved the whole USA infrastructure in the middle east. Harry was court martialled when he flapped down due to his misplaced ladle but is celebrated every year by weather systems being named after him. On a much heavier note here is a complete list of men who lost their lives in military service in Afghanistan, which ones played a part in your anecdote? UK military deaths in AfghanistanCon't:
I would like to thank all those who pushed me to research/document NACA's involvement inre to the Spitfire. In so doing, I was able to also find documents on my father's years at NACA (soon moved to NASA), beginning in 1944 at the old age of 29. So far I have found documents he wrote (1st one was shared authorship) from 1944, 1945 and 1947 (all in less than 30 min). My father was your typical engineer; never talked about his work unless asked a direct question, and possessed little humor . . . a serious guy.
I would also like to leave you something to think about, as I have over the years since it occurred. Sometime around 2008-2009, a USAF Major at a FOB (forward operating base) in the Middle East received a 'Classified' message about enemy activity in a certain geographical area. It just so happens that a British ground forces were about to depart for this same area. The message at that was not releasable to outside US forces. However, the Major left the secured classified building, where he approached the Commander of the British forces about to deploy. Handing the message to the Commander, he said: 'Sir, I think you need to read this!" As a result, the British suffered very few casualties that day. As for the USAF Major, he was immediately 'Court Marshalled,'.
I have always wondered, if the positions of the countrymen had been reversed, would the actions of those involved have been the same?
Navalwarrior, GWOT fr 2001 - 1212.
During this time when more German bombers were "blipped out" were the numbers of Hurricanes and Spitfires doing the "blipping" equal?????
Or were there a lot more Hurricanes than Spitfires?
Be careful of simple statistics.
By the time the Spitfire became the dominant fighter in Europe (equipped the majority of RAF squadrons) the majority of the German bombers had flown off to Russia.
I wouldn't be too sure about the best kill ratio, maybe the best over claim ratio if their 'successes' in 1941/42 are anything to go by. The Hurricane had a much better concentration of fire and scored 55% of the RAF's victories in the ETO during WW2.To add, the Spits were taking care 109s that would have given the Hurricanes a hard time trying to attack bombers.
The ratio of Hurricanes to Spitfires was ~2:1.
Spitfires had a better kill ratio than the Hurricane.
I wouldn't be too sure about the best kill ratio, maybe the best over claim ratio if their 'successes' in 1941/42 are anything to go by. The Hurricane had a much better concentration of fire and scored 55% of the RAF's victories in the ETO during WW2.
Until cannons came along both fighters had 8 .303s in the wings. What gave the Hurricane the concentration advantage?The Hurricane had a much better concentration of fire
The Hurricanes guns were in two banks of four, whereas the Spitfires guns were spread out across their wings giving a shotgun effect that scared the shit out of the Germans. If a Hurricane hit you it would be all over quickly. Their fire could shear off the tail of a Stuka.Until cannons came along both fighters had 8 .303s in the wings. What gave the Hurricane the concentration advantage?
Cheers,
Wes
I percentage of kills scored by Hurricanes in the BoB was higher. Just use the search facility on the aviation forums to find the figures and look on wikipedia at the Czech squadrons. The overall victories don't include V-1's shot down which may be a bit unfair. Also look on wikipedia at the Battle of Britain and air offensive over France sections for 1941 to 1942 under the Fighter Command section.You'll see that the Spitfires in that period shot down relatively few Luftwaffe fighters and according to German post-war records even less than they claimed.I will hazard a guess that the 55% of RAF victories that you attribute to the Hurricane actually relates to the BoB; someone has then extrapolated this percentage over all Fighter Command victory credits for the entire war in the ETO and arrived at the figure of 6000 victories for the Hurricane.
I really don't think that there is any historical basis for your claim that Hurricanes shot down more enemy aircraft than the Spitfire in the ETO.
From what I've read about the BoB, there were a lot of twisted wings of Spitfires laying around on airfield. The Hurricane you could patch up, the Spitfire got returned to a maintenance unit. The Spitfire needed the E wing not the C wing produced from October 1941, I'm sure that it would have scored better.You can put 4 guns in a wing all next to each other. You can put them spread out in a wing.
Gun mounts are adjustable, You can get all eight guns to hit one point (or at least a few foot circle at 250yds or other distance) with proper adjustment with either arrangement. You can also point each gun to hit a different spot no matter where in the wing they are located. This is on the ground when firing on a test stand.
View attachment 510123
The British used several different impact patterns at times but during the BoB they were supposed to be using a concentrated pattern.
In flight wings may bend or twist a bit, but not to the extent often claimed for Spitfires or the plane would not have been able to fly as it did (high dive speed).
Hurricanes were noted as being steader gun platforms. This means they flew a steadier course/flight path with little yawing or porpoising or snaking.
Some fighters were rather notorious as bad gun platforms (Russian I-16).
A He 111 fuselage (not the only target) was around 6 feet high and wide and the fat part was over 40 feet long. It also had wing about 50% bigger than a B-25 wing. Minor differences in gun placement should not have affected gunnery that much.
The placement of the guns in the Spitfire may not have been ideal but it seems to get a bad rap for reasons that had nothing to do with gun placement/location.
Resp:I wouldn't be too sure about the best kill ratio, maybe the best over claim ratio if their 'successes' in 1941/42 are anything to go by. The Hurricane had a much better concentration of fire and scored 55% of the RAF's victories in the ETO during WW2.
Resp:It's all part of the ongoing plan to prove that the Spitfire and Merlin were really American, so all becomes right with the world again.
Resp:I remember reading about Captain Harry Kane, he was serving in the catering corps of the British cowards division, seconded to provide holistic and emotional support to USA forces in the Middle East. However when the station came under attack from Russian backed forces Capt. Harry proved he was no shrinking violet. In a jiffy he strapped an ironing board to each arm and flapped his way up to 20,000ft (being an ex cub scout he only ironed on NACA profiles). By dropping the grenades he was carrying under his arm pits he wiped out the attacking force of SU-57s and saved the whole USA infrastructure in the middle east. Harry was court martialled when he flapped down due to his misplaced ladle but is celebrated every year by weather systems being named after him. On a much heavier note here is a complete list of men who lost their lives in military service in Afghanistan, which ones played a part in your anecdote? UK military deaths in Afghanistan
Resp:To add, the Spits were taking care 109s that would have given the Hurricanes a hard time trying to attack bombers.
The ratio of Hurricanes to Spitfires was ~2:1.
Spitfires had a better kill ratio than the Hurricane.