Most Useful Plane Not Produced

kitplane01 · May 13, 2020

What's the plane that should have gotten a production line, but did not?

- Was available in prototype form by Jun '43 (give or take)
- Less than 100 were made
- It would have been a good idea, from a practical, military and economic point of view, to make many more.
- It was a "lost opportunity".

Admiral Beez · May 13, 2020

kitplane01 said:
What's the plane that should have gotten a production line, but did not?

- Was available in prototype form by Jun '43 (give or take)
- Less than 100 were made
- It would have been a good idea, from a practical, military and economic point of view, to make many more.
- It was a "lost opportunity".

I would have suggested the Mitsubishi A7M but prototype wasn't available until well past 1943.

The Caproni Vizzola F.5 and Aeronautica Umbra Trojani AUT.18. Both prototypes flew in 1939. Just look at these beauties, with excellent visibility and looking fast sitting on the ground. Had the Fiat Tifone (license built DB) not been available, maybe one of these would have been mass (by Italian standards) produced.

tomo pauk · May 13, 2020

Spitfire III, MiG-3 with AM-38 engine, ANT-58 bomber.

drgondog · May 13, 2020

The NAA B-28 was an interesting and very advanced turbo supercharged R-2800 medium bomber with test flight speed at high 390 and projected into 420mph above 20K. Pressurized but limitations with 4000 pound bombload and power turret were in the 1600 mile range.

Stripped, it would have provision for Tokyo tanks and top speed exceeding the Mossie for Recon. With external tanks it would have the same bomber capability. Would easily have competed with Douglas B-26 but faster

The turbo installation was troublesome and was the cause of the loss off the CA coast on the way back to Inglewood.

Dimlee · May 13, 2020

USSR.
1. I-185
2. Tu-2 in 1942 (instead of 1944 in real life)
3. Su-6 with M-71F engine.
4. OKA-38 (Fi-156 clone).

RW Mk. III · May 13, 2020

Gloster F5/34 thrust straight into mass production in Canada, ideally with Pegasus or an R1820. More fighters for European Allies, South East Asia and potentially the FAA. Leaves Merlin supply stream untouched.

Hardlydank · May 13, 2020

Definitely the VG-33. Excellent performance but, like so many other French planes, came too late.

PAT303 · May 13, 2020

Spit MkIII all the way, it would mean no interim models so MkVIII's and then MkXIV's become the mainstay of fighter command. With some out of the norm free thinking commanders in charge the air war in Europe changes dramatically.

Clayton Magnet · May 13, 2020

I vote Mk.III Spitfire as well. Could have had Fw 190-like performance before the Fw 190 showed up and ruined the Mk.V's afternoon

gjs238 · May 13, 2020

drgondog said:
The NAA B-28 was an interesting and very advanced turbo supercharged R-2800 medium bomber with test flight speed at high 390 and projected into 420mph above 20K. Pressurized but limitations with 4000 pound bombload and power turret were in the 1600 mile range.

Stripped, it would have provision for Tokyo tanks and top speed exceeding the Mossie for Recon. With external tanks it would have the same bomber capability. Would easily have competed with Douglas B-26 but faster

The turbo installation was troublesome and was the cause of the loss off the CA coast on the way back to Inglewood.

Wonder if it would have outperformed the Northrop P-61 Black Widow as a night fighter.

Hardlydank · May 13, 2020

He280 would also qualify for this list I think. Obviously it mostly has worse specs than the 262, but the benefit of having a jet earlier may have offset the comparative performance deficiencies

Admiral Beez · May 13, 2020

If Douglas Dakota isn't available, I'd say some of the RAF's medium transports. Like the de Havilland Flamingo (14 produced), Bristol Bombay (51 produced), Handley Page Harrow (100 produced) and top of list the one-off Armstrong Whitworth A.W.23.

Admiral Beez · May 13, 2020

RW Mk. III said:
Gloster F5/34 thrust straight into mass production in Canada, ideally with Pegasus or an R1820. More fighters for European Allies, South East Asia and potentially the FAA. Leaves Merlin supply stream untouched.

It is a looker. My vote is an American engine for the RAF, RCAF and RAAF, with potentially Bristol engines for the FAA for easier compatibility with the Skua and Swordfish.

But for Malaya we'll need better performance than the Buffalo.

gjs238 · May 13, 2020

RW Mk. III said:
Gloster F5/34 thrust straight into mass production in Canada, ideally with Pegasus or an R1820. More fighters for European Allies, South East Asia and potentially the FAA. Leaves Merlin supply stream untouched.

A beauty.
With an 1820 or 1830 I wonder how performance would compare to the P-36/75 Hawk.

Admiral Beez · May 13, 2020

gjs238 said:
A beauty.
With an 1820 or 1830 I wonder how performance would compare to the P-36/75 Hawk.

We'll need to fix the undercarriage so that it's streamlined, and while we're at it, tuck away that tail wheel. Was there any reason Gloster thought this set up offered advantages? Maybe it could land with failed hydraulics.

R

And if we're operating in the Far East the RAF will need distinct roundels and markings. Just too close to the Ki-43 and A6M.

Hardlydank · May 14, 2020

Admiral Beez said:
Handley Page Harrow (100 produced)

The Harrow is one of my favorites. Looks like it can handle any conditions

wuzak · May 14, 2020

Spitfire Mk XII - 100 made.

Hardlydank · May 14, 2020

Admiral Beez said:
Was there any reason Gloster thought this set up offered advantages? Maybe it could land with failed hydraulics.

Lol, maybe they took that design from Curtiss

nuuumannn · May 14, 2020

Clayton Magnet said:
I vote Mk.III Spitfire as well. Could have had Fw 190-like performance before the Fw 190 showed up and ruined the Mk.V's afternoon

True, but the Mk.III did play a big part in the counter to that aircraft and future development of the Spitfire. It was the Mk.III that was fitted with a 60 series Merlin to make the Mk.VIII, which was to be the next major production variant, except with the Fw 190 making an appearance, the Air Ministry sought to drop 60 series Merlins into Mk Vs instead. Putting the Merlin 45 into the II produced the V, as we know and it was an expedient solution for more Spitfires in as short time as possible without too much disruption to the production line, as was utilising Mk.V production as the Mk.IX.

Had the Mk.III gone into production, the RAF would have had a brilliant fighter and perhaps development of the Mk.IX might not have taken place at all, and the placing of the 60 series Merlin straight into the Mk.III (to make the Mk.VIII) might have taken place a little later on the scene? Placing the Griffon into the Mk.IV produced an arguably superior performing fighter, with the 60 series Griffon going tnto the Mk.VIII to produce the XIV... So building the Mk.III might have changed the course of the career of the Spitfire a bit. Perhaps just plonking a 60 series Griffon into the III might have negated the need to fit the 60 series Merlin into the III?

nuuumannn · May 14, 2020

Admiral Beez said:
Maybe it could land with failed hydraulic

Exactly that. Less damage to the airframe in a wheel's up landing. The DC-3 was the same, the Blenheim, too.

HARDLYDANK said:
Lol, maybe they took that design from Curtiss

Curtiss got the idea of the swivelling landing gear from Boeing and had to pay royalties for its use. Very different set ups between the Gloster fighter and Hawk 75, tho...

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