swampyankee
Chief Master Sergeant
- 4,028
- Jun 25, 2013
The biggest bug in the P-39 was inadequate fuel supply. Since Bell put the engine right where you'd want to put the increased fuel storage, this would require a major redesign.
Most Useful Plane Not Produced
- Thread starter kitplane01
- Start date
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The biggest bug in the P-39 was inadequate fuel supply. Since Bell put the engine right where you'd want to put the increased fuel storage, this would require a major redesign.
It is too bad that the Re.2006 was not preserved for posterity.
About the calculated figures - chances were slim to none that DB 603A would've powered a ww2 era fighter to 750 km/h (bar perhaps a fighter based on lightweight P-51s - F/G/H/J?). We can recall that Germans needed the DB 603L to propel the Ta-125C to that speed figure, while the Fw 190 or Ta 152 were good for under 700 km/h DB 603A.
Kevin J
Banned
Take all guns out of the wings. Put in fuel tanks for escort duties. Lighten fuel tank load for interception. 6.9 mins to 20k feet for 39C and 11 to 25k is comparable with Spitfire. No guns in wings. For 42, 20mm cannon, 2 50s, 2 30s in fuselage.
Kevin J
Banned
So I was thinking Port Moresby to Lae PNG, 120 USG internal, 75 USG drop, 195 miles each way, must be feasible.
buffnut453
Captain
There are at least 2 other P-39 threads out there that can cover this topic. This thread is explicitly about aircraft that weren't built in sizeable numbers. As such, the P-39 is discounted.
Just my humble opinion...
Kevin J
Banned
Port Moresby to Rabaul, 500 miles each way, so the A6M3 could do it. I doubt if a Warhawk could, but correct me if I'm wrong. Hurricane couldn't nor Spitfire. A Miles M. 20 or a Vultee Vanguard with drop tanks could, except they didn't have any.
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swampyankee
Chief Master Sergeant
- 4,028
- Jun 25, 2013
I'd definitely get rid of the 37 mm M4, and switch to a 20 mm. From reading Tony William's article ("Another missed oppurtunity: the Oerlikon FFL cannon," ANOTHER MISSED OPPORTUNITY: THE OERLIKON FFL CANNON), it looks like the USAAF could get serviceable 20 mm into service in mid-1941, despite the US Army's rather arcane purchasing rules.
The speed for the Re 2006 does look optimistic, but bear in mind that Re by then had experience with the 2005.
But all this reminds me: the Fw 190C was another most useful plane not produced. With a DB 603A (no boosting), B4 87 octane fuel, and full armament (2 MG151, 2 MG131 and a 30mm MK103) 700 km/h was expected. That seems realistic; the similarly powered but unarmed Fw 190V16 reached 724 km/h. The C with 603 was planned for delivery from March 1943 but was cancelled in January 1943, possibly to yield 603s for the Me 410. Its performance/armament combo was not surpassed by the Allies until end 1943 or so and by Germany until the Me 262 in mid 1944.
Kevin J
Banned
Speed depends on what performance variance you're allowing on your fighters. For the Brits it was 3% plus or minus on the norm, for the Germans it was 5% later on in the war. Eg., an Me 262 could be accepted with a top speed ranging from 485 to 540 mph IIRC.
Dietmar Hermann mentions in his "Long Nose" book(it may have been the Ta 152 book) that that Focke-Wulf latter made a miscalculation in the weight of the Jumo 213 versus DB603 engine that made the DB603 seem 140kg or so heavier. But for that error the Fw 190D may have been flying with a DB603A.
"Dietmar Hermann mentions in his "Long Nose" book(it may have been the Ta 152 book) that that Focke-Wulf latter made a miscalculation in the weight of the Jumo 213 versus DB603 engine that made the DB603 seem 140kg or so heavier. But for that error the Fw 190D may have been flying with a DB603A."
The 190C with DB603 was cancelled by the RLM not FW. As to the respective engine weights it beggars belief that FW, which had been building and flying 190s with both engines for a year or more, could have made such a miscalculation. However the error (128kg) might have arisen from some ignoramus comparing a 603 "power egg" (including engine bearers, radiators and sheet covering) with a bare 213A. Given that it cancelled the 190 with 603 (and the quality of its decisionmaking generally) I would suspect the RLM.
The 190C with DB603 was cancelled by the RLM not FW. As to the respective engine weights it beggars belief that FW, which had been building and flying 190s with both engines for a year or more, could have made such a miscalculation. However the error (128kg) might have arisen from some ignoramus comparing a 603 "power egg" (including engine bearers, radiators and sheet covering) with a bare 213A. Given that it cancelled the 190 with 603 (and the quality of its decisionmaking generally) I would suspect the RLM.
Conslaw
Senior Airman
Most useful plane not produced? I'd go with the F7F Tigercat. I know it was produced. Corky Meyer says 105 F7F-3N were produced by July 1945. Still, the plane was on the slow burner, and likely the biggest reason for that was that the F6F was plenty good enough for every task that was asked of it, including nightfighter. and it could be produced rapidly and relatively cheaply. Still, the F7F would likely have been a better nightfighter, and could deliver more ordinance per sortie.
Kevin J
Banned
Only the final version F7F-4N passed its carrier qualification tests, 12 were built.
Admiral Beez
Major
The VG-33 is a beauty. France should have followed Britain's example and had only two single engine fighters in large production, in this case the VG-33 and the D.520.
Conslaw
Senior Airman
Even without passing the carrier tests, the F7F was a pretty potent bird, at least the equal to the Ki-83 that everyone fawns over.
Kevin J
Banned
For land based use only though.
Conslaw
Senior Airman
Ok.
Shortround6
Major General
This rather over simplifies the British position as a lot depends on what is meant by in large production. please remember that it can take over year from the placing of an order to the first production plane being delivered.
British had 400 Whirlwinds on order at one point, granted it is not single engine but is a single seater.
How many single engine Defiants were on order? aside from about 1062 too many, it sucked up a fair amount of effort in 1940/41.
There were orders for 1960 Hawker Tornadoes on the books by the end of of 1939.
The VG 33 is another one of the French wonder planes who's combat capability might be subject to question.
