Museum sheds light on Canada's wartime effort

Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules

Thats my point entirely zoul, Syscoms idea of 'ranking' countries by the 'significance' of their contribution is insulting and senseless. I agree with everything you said in your previous post though; I was trying to work out my own reply when you posted it
 
But I'm not anti-Canadian, and I never make fun of Canada even when every other American is. Though I must admit I did chuckle quite a bit during the movie "Canadian Bacon".
 
They were the true heavy hitters of the small countries that really did make a difference in victory or not.

There he goes again! Just like the energizer bunny, wind him up and let him go!

If I were a soldier who fought in WW2 I would bitch slap you! To say that the blood spilled by any soldier did not contribute to victory is a slap in the face.

Everyone pay no attention to sys, he lives in a very narrow world. Outside of his little California home, there is nothing else.
 
 
I for the most part don't see all that much wrong with Syscoms statements although they could piss some off
but I will follow that age old formula that we use in Canadathe 10 times rule as population wise they are 10times the population we would have had overseas
120 fighter squadrons
150 heavy bomber
30 intruder night fighter
50 Divisions
10000 ships
would manufacteured 8million vehicles
160000 aircraft
 
Last edited:
PB you're point is correctly taken. What I think BombTaxi and I objected to was not the argument or facts marshaled but the "in your face" tone in which it was constantly presented.

I repeat from earlier - my response to your 10%er. Voluntary participation in conflict + % of GDP earmarked to support such "conflict" is a true and fair measure of the commitment that an ally will bring to a conflict. By THAT measure and only that measure is it fair to judge your allies. If you don't agree - fine - but let's hear why? Because Sys is just a needle stuck in a track on this subject - tone wise.

I don't need to be instructed that Canada was running out of steam - men - in 1945. Same in 1918 (Conscription crises from which we are still recovering politically). You see that today in Af'stan when General Leslie says that the Canadian Army is "worn out". I wouldn't tolerate for a second an argument that claimed that Canada was a weak ally in Af'stan. Canada does what it has to do and usually puts it's heart and soul into doing it. And when it's DONE we leave our trucks in Europe for the Dutch, and go home


Canada's performance (as an ally) in ALL wars is relevant to this thread. Including the Pats winning a Presidential Citation in Korea.

Little powers know how to do great damage to their enemies. Finland. Australia. Canada. VietNam, Estonia. All of these defy SysCom's statistical analysis. [And all pay dearly, sadly, for it]

Cheers,

MM
 
Last edited:
Syscom, thanks for posting the topic, I don't believe you were trying to deliberately insult the Canadian veterans, but I think Adler is correct, it was an extremely poor choice of words.

I'll only respond to your analysis on the "macro" scale,you are all wet on quite a few of the points.


Wrong. If you consider only the US and UK, and only the period 1944 - 1945, perhaps the US had 60% or so of the combat in the ETO/MTO. However the nation that "took on the brunt of the fighting done in the ETO" was undoubtably the Russians, and if you consider the whole ground war 1939 - 1944 in the ETO MTO I think that you will find that the UK Commonwealth had more boots on the ground for more days than the US.


If anything, the country that contributed the most with having the least resources is Australia. They fought the Germans and the Japanese. Unlike the Canadians who only fought one foe.
But it was only Australia that fought both the best the axis could offer. They were the true heavy hitters of the small countries that really did make a difference in victory or not.

Wrong
Obviously the last thing I want to do is to get into a silly pissing match with any Aussies or Americans here about "who fought the tougher bad guys".
The Aussies fought in the PTO MTO. Canadians fought in the PTO, ETO, MTO {Is Italy MTO or ETO?} and also a heavy role in the battle of the Atlantic. Ultimately though, ALL of the Commonwealth nations had a role in all theaters

As for

Military history of Canada during the Second World War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I dunno, but I would think that the Panzer Lehr the 1st SS Panzer - Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler (LSSAH) would qualify as among the "best". Was the 38th division IJA that executed Canadian PoWs "better" or "worse" than the Japanese units that executed the Aussie PoWs in Malaysia? Someone else can answer that.

Which stopped the Japanese for what? A few hours? And when you think about the divisions and brigades that the Aussies were deploying, then these two battalions hardly any meaningfull contribution.

Wrong again
No, as a matter of fact they were attacked at the same time as "Pearl", and held out until Christmas. Hardly a "few hours"

Canada's production? .... But by 1944, the US had so much capacity, it dwarfed yours. By madnitudes. And even Britains industrial production was far above yours.


Uh, yeah, Britain has ~4 times the population. And the US production in 1944 would be completely "irrelevant" if it hadn't been for the huge sacrifices early in the war by ALL the Allies. If the UK is defeated and Russia folds by 1942, your "projected 1944 production" means nothing


If anything, the country that contributed the most with having the least resources is Australia. They were the true heavy hitters of the small countries.

I'll agree with you halfway here, the Aussie did provide a "maximum effort", unfortunately Canada was saddled with a self-serving fool for PM, who meddled with military policy for crass political benefit. The reason that the Canadians didn't have any involvement in the MTO in 1941 1942 was because the PM privately asked the British to keep Canadians out of combat to pander to the Quebec French.

Whitehall should have pulled the rug out from under this idiot, but I'll say no more about politics.
 
Last edited:

Wars are won by a countries contribution to the cause.

If it weren't for the Russians, Germany could have won the war in Europe.

If it werent for the US, The allies would have lost, no one would have opened a western front.

The US single handily won the war in the PTO (with all due respect to the Aussies).
 
 
Last edited:
Syscom, thanks for posting the topic, I don't believe you were trying to deliberately insult the Canadian veterans, but I think Adler is correct, it was an extremely poor choice of words.

Yes it was.


As for the Aussies (which includes the NZ'ers) contribution .... it was the Aussie coast watchers who ensured a US victory on Guadalcanal.

It was the Aussies in NG who bailed out several US army units from being mauled by the Japanese.

And I would not be incorrect in saying that if it weren't for the Aussies, the war in the SW Pacific would have turned out quite differently.

And it was Aussie forces who trained the US forces in the peculiarities in jungle warfare. And it wasn't the Canadians teaching the US about how to fight the Germans.

As for Europe, it seems most of Canada's contributions went to naught because of you being under a UK command that squandered your forces. And after Normandy, the whole British Army was bled dry. The contributions of the BA became less and less relevant as the US Army expanded week by week. Care to debate that fact?
 
Last edited:
No, as a matter of fact they were attacked at the same time as "Pearl", and held out until Christmas. Hardly a "few hours"

It still boils down to a token force that should never have been there in the first place, that did not effect the course of the Japanese operations in China. And even before the battle was over, that was the end of the Canadian contribution in any meaningful way to the main fight in the CBI/SW Pacific/PTO. After that, it was a US, ANZAC and Brit show (and of course the Chinese)

And the US production in 1944 would be completely "irrelevant" if it hadn't been for the huge sacrifices early in the war by ALL the Allies. If the UK is defeated and Russia folds by 1942, your "projected 1944 production" means nothing

Ummm, the US industrial might was starting to make its power known in 1940. The whole concept of the US industrial mobilization in that year was predicated on an allied collapse and the US was the only one left standing.
 
 

Users who are viewing this thread