Need Drawings For Hamilton Standard 6353A18 & 6477A0 Props

[MiTasol]

I am trying to find the equivalent book on Curtiss alloy blades so understand where you are coming from.

You could also try the NASM at the Smithsonian. Great people but slow to reply as they are overworked. They are also closed to the public though they may still be taking requests through their web page Reference Services and working behind closed doors

 

[Old MacDonald]

Good point. I'm a couple of hours from DC and will check with them when they reopen. I'll let you know if I find anything on the Curtiss blades (the original B-24 & LB-30s also used Curtis "needle" blades, but that's outside my area of concentration). What, specifically, are you looking for regarding the Curtiss blades?

 

[MiTasol]

That is a fantastic offer. I am looking for the profile of the blade used on the Australian built Bristol Beaufort aircraft. Part number is 89303-18 or 89324-12 depending on which reference you use.

 

[YakMan]

I find I have a copy of EO 15-30-2, EO 15-30-2A, EO 15-30-9, EO-30AB-2G and EO 30AB-2C. Is it possible to get a copy of EO 15-30A?
I have a large number of prop dimensions taken from various sources. All are "standardised" at given station points and you need extra datum reference information in order to produce the profile. If you would like this for a given blade, drop me a message.
The information on the 6501 would be of interest as well.

Hiya! I am desperate to obtain a copy of EO 15 30AB-2C any chance I could have a copy of yours please? Trying to get a Beech 18 back in the air!!
Cheers
YakMan (John)

 

[YakMan]

Hi dude

I'm a Propeller lover... love to 3D model these ones.

Don't have the original building technical drawings ( and honestly after years of researches, not sure anyone still have them, and UTC Aerospace is not keen to help )

But I do own a 6477A-0 blade that I scanned with photogrametry, it helped me have great template and cross section to model one to great accuracy..

May it helps you ?

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Stay in touch !

Hueyman

Hiya!
You have done a great job! Can I just make an observation on prop' weathering? In my experience, prop blades definitely show high signs of wear on the leading edges with dings and dents and paint worn and chipped down to the aluminium. There is never any weathering or damage on the trailing edge. The rear (engine) side of the blade is the side that does all the work and is usually plastered with dead bugs and maybe the occasional chip or ding from gravel on the runway but mostly, its smeared with dead bugs. The front side of the blade shows no bugs and wear at all and at most will have UV paint fading or wear from being repeatedly cleaned/polished but zero wear from moving through the air. It is fair to say I have no experience of propeller use in very dusty or sandy conditions, you don't encounter that in General Aviation so much! I see so many models with (to me) unrealistic blade weathering and its always on the front side which ironically is the least likely side to wear!
What to other aircraft mechanics think?
Cheers
John

 

[MiTasol]

Hiya!
You have done a great job! Can I just make an observation on prop' weathering? In my experience, prop blades definitely show high signs of wear on the leading edges with dings and dents and paint worn and chipped down to the aluminium. There is never any weathering or damage on the trailing edge. The rear (engine) side of the blade is the side that does all the work and is usually plastered with dead bugs and maybe the occasional chip or ding from gravel on the runway but mostly, its smeared with dead bugs. The front side of the blade shows no bugs and wear at all and at most will have UV paint fading or wear from being repeatedly cleaned/polished but zero wear from moving through the air. It is fair to say I have no experience of propeller use in very dusty or sandy conditions, you don't encounter that in General Aviation so much! I see so many models with (to me) unrealistic blade weathering and its always on the front side which ironically is the least likely side to wear!
What to other aircraft mechanics think?
Cheers
John

Agreed leading edge always and thrust face (rear surface) in dusty areas. Camber side very rare and trailing edge never

 

[fubar57]

https://www.timetravelair.com/techlibrary/EO 15-30AB-2C.pdf

 

[Michael Hope]

Hiya! I am desperate to obtain a copy of EO 15 30AB-2C any chance I could have a copy of yours please? Trying to get a Beech 18 back in the air!!
Cheers
YakMan (John)

With the 22D30 series propellers, they have been made with two different length spider tail shafts, if you have long engine cowls and install a propeller with a short spider tail shaft, when you try and feather the propeller it will touch the cowls and makes a big mess.
The dome assembly has been made with both a standard oil system with high pressure feathering oil inside of the hub, and then one with inverted cams so that the high pressure feathering oil is inside of the shell dome shell.
The engine shaft has two different thread sizes for the distributor valve. So if you have an engine with the smaller thread size and a distributor with the large thread size it will not fit. They do have a threaded sleeve to increase the size if your engine has the large threads and you have a small thread size for the distributor.
So with the two different spider tail shaft lengths and the two different types of domes, that means there are four different distributors with different lengths and hole arrangements, with different internal oil passages, so you have to make sure every thing is matched.

 

[YakMan]

With the 22D30 series propellers, they have been made with two different length spider tail shafts, if you have long engine cowls and install a propeller with a short spider tail shaft, when you try and feather the propeller it will touch the cowls and makes a big mess.
The dome assembly has been made with both a standard oil system with high pressure feathering oil inside of the hub, and then one with inverted cams so that the high pressure feathering oil is inside of the shell dome shell.
The engine shaft has two different thread sizes for the distributor valve. So if you have an engine with the smaller thread size and a distributor with the large thread size it will not fit. They do have a threaded sleeve to increase the size if your engine has the large threads and you have a small thread size for the distributor.
So with the two different spider tail shaft lengths and the two different types of domes, that means there are four different distributors with different lengths and hole arrangements, with different internal oil passages, so you have to make sure every thing is matched.

Dear Michael,

Thanks for the info - with luck we can keep the original props going for years so will not need to do anything internal to them ourselves, we do have a good prop company who do that for us. All info on 22D30s welcome although thanks to www.timetravel.com we do have an impressive library of Ham. Stan. and Beech 18 Manuals. There is a lot of New Old Stock parts still available too for the 18.

 

[Daniel Donovan Farrow]

I am in the process of developing a scale model of the 6477A-0 blade as used on the B-17F & G. Referring to the 1947 issue of the Hamilton Standard repair manual No. 130, the way to develop an accurate prop is to understand how to make a repair template. They don't show the profile or cross-section of the blade; instead, they give you the distance from a center line, at stations along the blade length. The chart for this blade gives you everything you need to know to create an accurate profile, or cross-section. The chart for the 6477A-0 (and variant 6277A-0) is known as Group 21 Face Template Dimensions. Two other dimensions are important. This prop uses shank "E" which shows the diameter to be 5.375" as it goes into the hub (at 1:48 scale, the finer details of the shank are not relevant as it disappears into the hub.) The other dimension involves understanding that the length of the blade is composed of the shank (the inner part) and the airfoil (the outer part). The length of the shank can be inferred by noting that the leading edge of the blade (the 0% point) is shown at the 12" station, which is typical. The leading edge uses a radius for the first 2.5% of the chord, then the distances above and below the line are given. The trailing edge is a little tricky because at the tip of the blade, no dimensions are given past the 80% line. The trailing edge is 1.125" past the 90% line. I'll use this information to create an accurate prop with FreeCad, send it to my high-resolution 3-D printer, and create a master. Using silicone molds, I'll cast these in resin for assembly into my hubs.

It was not easy to get this information. I paid for a $50 yearly subscription to the AirCorps Library because I could not find it elsewhere. Since I'm a serious modeler, it's already been money well spent. I also have the data for the 6519 blade as used on the F4U, the Lancaster, and the DC-4. I also took a quick look at the parts books for the R-2600. Looks very useful. The page reader takes some getting used to.

 

[Old MacDonald]

Hey Daniel

I haven't checked this thread for quite a while so am tardy in responding. Thanks for your very valuable information.

My initial info request was actually quite simple: I wanted to provide scale modelers with a simple visual guide to differentiating in photos between the 6353A18 blade used on early and mid-production B-24Ds and the "paddle blade" 6477A0 blade used on late B-24Ds and the remainder of B-24/PB4Y production. As you can see, this difference applied to B-24Ds used operationally from 1941 through early 1944 (although perhaps a handful of oldies survived on ops until Spring 1944 or very early summer '44). The context for me is the TIDAL WAVE attack on the oil refineries at Ploesti, Romania, on 1 Aug 43, where there was a mix of prop types; the older Libs had the 6353A18 and the later ones the 6477AO. In fact, about 10 Libs that participated were so new they'd never flown a previous combat mission and had only arrived in the combat theater (North Africa) less than two weeks prior to the mission. All of them had the 6477AOs, as did almost all the replacement ships that arrived in the desert or UK from roughly March 43 on. Nobody cares about this fine distinction except scale modelers!

Your explanation goes into much greater depth than I'd originally contemplated, but is exceptionally helpful to me. Thanks again.