need help identifying the 109

[phas3e]

Going with the Blue/white/blue theory and according to Jg300's loss list,

Bf109G-10 W.Nr.491209 'Yellow 7 of IV./Jg300 was shot down by fighters on that day, Location, E Burg.(not sure if thats the area your looking for)
Fhr. Arno Schmidt was killed after taking to his parachute

 

[bobbysocks]

Going with the Blue/white/blue theory and according to Jg300's loss list,

Bf109G-10 W.Nr.491209 'Yellow 7 of IV./Jg300 was shot down by fighters on that day, Location, E Burg.(not sure if thats the area your looking for)
Fhr. Arno Schmidt was killed after taking to his parachute

could be. Burg is about 12 miles NE of Madgeburg. and the 7 matches. i will dig further...thanks to all

 

[bobbysocks]

i think i got it. this is a 190 but the marking match and it is from Jg301.

 

[bobbysocks]

guess this would be it huh??/ DUH...i found these in one of the other threads where Les was looking for a skin. and grau had the other one. would it have the blue bar in it??

 

[Airframes]

The blue bar is the marking for II Gruppe. From the description from the combat report, I read it as a numeral 7, which would be forward of the fuselage cross, and the yellow and red bar or stripe, either side, I take as meaning these were on each side of the fuselage, in other words, the yellow/red tail band, as shown in the pic and skins.
So I think you are looking for a machine of JG301.

 

[bobbysocks]

Yes....from all the answers here and the LW ac with the same colors it seems to point that way. and i think its IV/JG 301 yellow 7

 

[Erich]

blue bar horizontally indicates IVth gruppe, II. gruppe had a red bar, and Ist gruppe had a white one. III. gruppe sometimes wore a yellow bar sometimes none at all but this is the same reasoning for Ist and II nd as well. Stab had a funny looking green-blue one

everyone say they are confused now please because it is..........Aye !

D

the A/C is marked werke nummer 491 200. Bf 109G-10 with pilot Fähnrich Harald Rauh at the controls shot down in action near the town of Stresow, KIA. yellow 7

15./JG 301

E ~

 

[Airframes]

Heck! They made things complicated by that period of the war! Thanks Erich, I was working off the 'old' system of no bar for I Gruppe, horizontal for II Gruppe, welle, later vertical bar for III Gruppe, and then welle for IV Gruppe when the fourth was added to the JG's. I just thought the blue bar was a Staffel colour within II Gruppe!

 

[Erich]

it gets worse let me tell ya. JG 301 has some very unique if not strange markings, some vertical bands single and double/triple as well as he second gruppe bar in different colours.

more of course as we cove them in our book.

E ~

 

[bobbysocks]

AYE!!! 15./JG301?? not 4./JG301?? or didnt have a XV./JG301? now i am confused. Stresow is SE of Burg which is West of Madgeburg....general vicinity. in the heat of battle and chasing AC you could cover 20 miles easily i would imagine. ok so i want a 109g-10. black and white barber pole nose. AC bluish gray....(yellow) 7 + II one red one yellow and a blue - in the 2 vert stripes. and i want 491 200???. on the tail? IF yellow 7's pilot hit the silk then this isnt the one...after reading both combat reports the pilot never bailed he dished out and pancaked in.

 

[phas3e]

Jg301s loss list shows what is probably the aircraft you are looking for as Erich mentioned above.

Best to look for photos of other Erla built G-10s around the same block number, it will give the best indication of how it was painted, I believe Erla went through a change in its camouflage application during this block from RLM 74/75 to 83/75 and also not painting the underside of the wings, so checking out other Erla's should be looked into.

 

[Erich]

ok in IV./JG 301 you had 13, 14, 15 and 16th staffels. not sure if 16th staffel had it's own a/c as the data is not directly in front of me. March 2nd mission was the last one for the G-10 equipped IVth gruppe they were just plain wiped out the resr of the cadre went to the other gruppen and then to ground duties.

4./JG 301 with blue numerals flew the Fw 190A-8 and A-9, it was part of I./JG 301

E ~

 

[Airframes]

Bobbysocks, in an effort to ease your confusion, it'll help to understand the Luftwaffe nomenclature for Jagdgeschwader.
The Gruppen were identified by a Roman number, for example I/JG301, II/JG301 etc. The Staffeln within the Gruppen were identified by an Arabic number, for example, 4/JG301. There were (at this period) normally 4 Staffeln (singular = Staffel) within a Gruppe, so 4/JG301 can be identified as the fourth Staffel of the 1st Gruppe of JG 301.
Likewise, IV/JG301 means the fourth Gruppe of the Geschwader, and 15/JG301 would be the fifteenth Staffel, which would place it (at 4 Staffeln per Gruppe) within the fourth Gruppe.
Hope this makes sense and is of some help!!

 

[bobbysocks]

yeah, that does help...a lot. thanks...

 

[bobbysocks]

interesting footnote on this. i was going through papers and ran across this account from the group historian. it was yellow 7 piloted by and nco harald ruh ( like said before) 15th staffel, IV grupe, JG301 werk # 491200. was going to do this in 1/72 but am thinking of going to 1/48 scale. have two others ordered in that scale...anyways you guys were pretty much spot on. thanks.

 

[Airframes]

Good to hear you got the answers. Looking forward to seeing the model when you get it done.