New PBY wreck discovered

Discussion in 'WW2 General' started by GrauGeist, Dec 4, 2015.

  1. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    Researchers have been able to find an additional PBY in about 30 feet of water at Kāne‛ohe Bay, where a U.S. Naval air station once was. The large compliment of PBY Catalinas were mostly destroyed both in the bay and ashore, as the Imperial Japanese attack waves headed for Pearl Harbor.

    Due to the location of this PBY, researchers beleive it was attempting to take off during the attack when it was sunk.

    Incredible images reveal US Navy seaplane lost in Pearl Harbor attack | Fox News
     
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  2. Shinpachi

    Shinpachi Well-Known Member

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  3. buffnut453

    buffnut453 Well-Known Member

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    Hope they work out the airframe identity. If the crew did die attempting to take-off, I hope their families will gain some comfort from knowing the facts of the situation, and an appreciation of the courage these young men showed.
     
  4. Capt. Vick

    Capt. Vick Well-Known Member

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    Not really buying the attacked during take-off spin to the story...
     
  5. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    #5 GrauGeist, Dec 4, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2015
    The reason why it was recently discovered, is because it's out and away from all the other known wrecks.

    I'll try and find another article that shows it's position relevant to the others. While the others were sunk at their moorings, this wreck was further out and facing at such an angle that indicates it may have been trying to get airborne.

    ** Also, I forgot to mention, if you look at the images provided, you'll see the anchor on this PBY was stowed in it's well.

    PBY_anchor-and-cockpit[800].jpg
     
  6. Capt. Vick

    Capt. Vick Well-Known Member

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    ...also, what makes them think it was lost on Dec 7th, 1941? Just curious.
     
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  7. Gnomey

    Gnomey World Travelling Doctor
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    Good stuff!
     
  8. VBF-13

    VBF-13 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, what is it that connects this one to December 7th, 1941? Is it shot up? This base has been there throughout the War and PBYs were lost taking gunnery practice and other such drills through 1945. I wonder if this one could be identified in a loss/accident database.
     
  9. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    #9 GrauGeist, Dec 8, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2015
    During the attacks, there was a considerable amount of confusion, however, the U.S. personnel did a tremendous job of reacting in spite of the short notice and difficult circumstances.

    Some may recall that a number of USAAC fighters attempted to take off from Hickam and Wheeler, many did not make it. This can be said of several other fields across the island that also came under attack, but by some miracle, a small force of defenders were able to get airborn and engage, adding to several aircraft that happened to be airborn during the Japanese attack.

    As far as this PBY is concerned, I imagine that if any PBYs were lost in operational incidents after the attack, it would have most likely been noted by a MACR and identified.

    Here's a report from the commander of Kaneohe Naval Station (base of Scouting One) filed 1 January 1942, that gives us an idea of what happened that morning.

    Pearl Harbor Attack: Patrol Wing (PBY) One Action Report
     
  10. VBF-13

    VBF-13 Well-Known Member

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    That report is compelling. At the low end it means the inference is no pipe dream. Still, NAS Kaneohe remained a scouting and training venue throughout the War. My Dad was in FAW-2 there in 1945 for 6 months wherein he witnessed the returning scouting and combat aircraft, some of it shot-up, toward the end of the War. That amount of time this base was operational means I want to see the SN on this PBY-5 before I take the inference as fact. I hope they try to get it. The problem is, you read this FOX News report, there are a lot of people on the line, already, experts included, who are going to look stupid if this isn't a December 7th, 1941 casualty, and that's not good.
     
  11. Capt. Vick

    Capt. Vick Well-Known Member

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  12. GrauGeist

    GrauGeist Well-Known Member

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    Fox news is no different than the BBC, CNN or others...they take wire service news and add it to their feed.

    There has been an ongoing archaeological survey of Kaneole and other areas involved in the 7 December attack. You'll notice that recently, they discovered one of the lost IJN minisubs that had remained a mystery for decades.

    In addition to the "lost" PBY of Kaneohe, there is also a mystery P-40 that lays mostly buried in the sand which has been difficult to ID.

    Back to the PBY: it's been the subject of ongoing research with some highly technical research. Perhaps reading this exceptionally detailed research paper submitted by the Society for Historical Archaeology might be of interest:
    http://sha.org/wp-content/uploads/files/sha/files_2014/22241.pdf

    You'll notice by it's date that this PBY has been of interest for quite some time and there are excellent citations and sources defined at the conclusion. Among those sources are more in-depth research on the 7 December attack - alot of great reading to be found there!
     
  13. VBF-13

    VBF-13 Well-Known Member

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    #13 VBF-13, Dec 9, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2015
    I still see this archeological study as the cart leading the horse. The history in the article is great reading, though. EDIT: They ought to raise it and look for numbers and markings but of course they aren't going to, but those are the smoking guns. One would think any archeological study would at least be familiar with where said numbers and markings would be and at least document efforts at trying to locate same. Instead, 90% of this study is history, and it reads more like a history lesson than an investigative study aimed at discovering the truth.
     
  14. fubar57

    fubar57 Well-Known Member

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