Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
Ju388/488? The He177 would have been fine as a four engine aircraft with 4x db601/5s. Or Jumo 213s.The 'next generation' being the bombers being designed after He 111/Do 17/Ju 88. Or, IOW, what to make instead of the stillborn Ju 288, very problematic He 177 and workmanlike, but unremarkable Do 217. Requirements are the bombload over distance, operating/cruising/max speed, without the reliance to a new shiny engine that might and might nor materialize. Ability to be mass produced is also a must. Defensive armament should be better than on the existing bombers of 1938-40, but don't over-do it, not just because the defensive guns/turrets require a lot of crew members to man them. Both 'classic' and unorthodox layouts work. Piston engines for the starters, later jets or mixed propulsion. Dive bombing is not a must. 2 or 3 or 4 engines, whatever you fancy.
HiHow about a ship just designed to carry v-1 ? Long range to upset the short range pesky RAF fighters? Stab in the back kind of thing? Just to spread the defense and increase the cost of maintaining air patrols further in the mainland or further up to north sea. In this scenerio it is not how many v-1 get through but the investment in it to stop them.
This was done, on Dec 1944 the LW launched 45 V1s from He 111s at Manchester. 35 hit the greater Manchester area which is huge annd involves many surrounding towns like Oldham and Bury. One bomb killed around 35 civilians, another wrecked a cricket pitch (happily the square was untouched and it was all repaired before the cricket season started). An air launched V1 cost more to produce and operate than any damage it caused, if this type of raid had continued it was easy to counter, as it was with air launched raids on London.How about a ship just designed to carry v-1 ? Long range to upset the short range pesky RAF fighters? Stab in the back kind of thing? Just to spread the defense and increase the cost of maintaining air patrols further in the mainland or further up to north sea. In this scenerio it is not how many v-1 get through but the investment in it to stop them.
Something with a decent sized internal bomb bay.
Something that has decent if not great speed.
Something that can be powered by a pair 1600-1800hp engines, so it can be built in quantity. Four engine bombers are not going to be built in enough numbers.
Mike ship means airplane. Not a floatty on water thing.Hi
Sounds like a nice juicy target for RAF Coastal Command strike wings, or RN ships and submarines during late 1944 and 1945.
Mike
As most want to build or extent airplanes, take in account the raw material/oil situation. Or is that un limited?
I'm not entirely sure where the Do 217 fall short of this?What the Germans might have had a need for is an updated He 111, or something of that sort.
A close competitor to the Do 217.
Something with a decent sized internal bomb bay.
Something that has decent if not great speed.
Something that can be powered by a pair 1600-1800hp engines, so it can be built in quantity. Four engine bombers are not going to be built in enough numbers.
In that case perhaps a staffeln or 3 of he111z with plenty of v-1 under wing from Norway or other far out post to make the opponent put up a stiff resistance. Attack the parts not that well defendend from the coast. No London but other targets or ports, forget channel targets. No doubt they will counter it but the cost will be enormous. Doesnt matter what they hit. The radars are at the western coast. I think the He111Z can launch and run. Stab in the back. It will work for more then 3 months until Bleachey breaks the code again. Untill then sources will be more scattered.Nope - more or less a 'zero sum game'. Or, kill off something else to have the aircraft you/we desire in service.
Decent-sized bomb bay was a feature of Ju 288. Even the total size of the bomb bay of the Ju-88 was decent, but it was cut in half due to designer's choice of low-wing layout, thus requiring useful bombs to be carried outside, killing the speed in every day's service.
The low-wing configuration of the Ju 88 was not per se the main culprit for the small length of the bomb bays. The type design chief Gassner and the Junkers chief designer Zindel clashed about this. Zindel wanted bays for larger bombs, but Gassner, supported by RLM "experts" with all their WW1 experience, opted for 50 KG bombs. The forward bomb bay sat between the wing carry-through structures which were pretty substantial kit in high-tensile steel (due to dive-bombing requirements);
sizing the bomb bay for 250 kg bombs would have required the distance between the main wing spars to be increased by about 60 cm, with consequences for wing shape and aspect ratio. Not something you could do retrospectively; it might have been possible as part of the original design. In any case, the aft bay could have been lengthened for bigger bombs with little trouble. But the RLM was content with 50 kg bombs, of which 1400 kg, about 3100 pounds, could be carried internally as standard load - quite a substantial load for the time.
Really the answer was the Ju288 with the 2000hp engines, but with a streamlined cockpit, two crew, no defensive guns, and limited armor to make it as fast as possible. The bomb bay for that was ideal for what you want. Thing is you cannot use the Ju88 wings on the 288 given the balance issues. In fact from the original prototype 288 they had to increase the wing size (as well as strengthen the landing gear) and it seems the aircraft gained about 1000kg from the original prototype to the last iteration of the 3 man version. Cutting weight by removing defensive guns and 1 crew member, plus making a smaller, more sleek cockpit could offset some of the need to increase the weight of the aircraft, which then gets you performance that is superior to the DH Mosquito of the same period in terms of speed, range, and payload.Ju 88 was 1st designed as a fast bomber, that was later turned into a dive bomber.
Both Do 217 and Ju 288 were also dive bombers, both being high-wing aircraft. Seems like the RLM experts wanted and gotten the He 111 to carry 250 kg bombs internally.
I've never suggested the redesign of the Ju 88 to carry big bombs internally, but to have a proper high-wing bomber with a decent bomb bay. Be it the Ju 288 fuselage/Ju 88 wing combo, or having FW to make a bomber that is a Ta-154 lookalike, or perhaps Heinkel making the He 219-shaped A/C as a bomber, powered by BMW 801s, etc.
Lengthening the aft bay on the Ju 88 to carry really big bombs has a problem of CoG with a 1000, 1400, 1800 or 2000 kg bomb that much aft.
Really the answer was the Ju288 with the 2000hp engines, but with a streamlined cockpit, two crew, no defensive guns, and limited armor to make it as fast as possible. The bomb bay for that was ideal for what you want.
Thing is you cannot use the Ju88 wings on the 288 given the balance issues. In fact from the original prototype 288 they had to increase the wing size (as well as strengthen the landing gear) and it seems the aircraft gained about 1000kg from the original prototype to the last iteration of the 3 man version. Cutting weight by removing defensive guns and 1 crew member, plus making a smaller, more sleek cockpit could offset some of the need to increase the weight of the aircraft, which then gets you performance that is superior to the DH Mosquito of the same period in terms of speed, range, and payload.