No Spitfire?

gumbyk said:

The Hurricane was at or near the end of its development, and would have been ineffective against later German aircraft, regardless of the numbers put up. Britain would have fairly quickly run out of pilots.

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The Hurricane was 2/3 of the BoB force. The RAF would still win with 3/3 Hurricances but the fight would be harder. The Spitfire was more expensive to produce and maintain too so there would be larger numbers of replacements.

A possible course with no Spitfire would be to produce the P51 under licence with the Merlin engine meaning earlier escorted missions. The Spitfire was a pure interceptor not ideal for offensive operations.

The Spitfire was a great plane but something would have filled its place, unlike the Mosquito which was truly exceptional.

SaparotRob said:

I think you bring up a good point. I'm not so good at what-ifs. Without the Spitfire, Britain would be stuck on an island. Britain and Germany may come to a negotiated settlement. Why keep banging one's head against a wall? Sir Winston Churchill seems to have been a polarizing figure (source: cherry picking numerous threads). Maybe with a less favorable outcome of the BoB, Britain is more willing to "chat". Britain keeps its Empire unmolested. The UK and the third reich have an armistice. Maybe Imperial Japan thinks again about acquiring certain resources now that the Commonwealth isn't preoccupied.

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The night bomber offensive isnt going to be affected by inferior day fighters.

The 'Rhubarb' operations of OTL 1941 were costly and best avoided. The bulk of the LW would be on the Russian front, with us expecting nuisance raids, but with home advantage this time.

So we dont have to make an armistice, just sit tight until we have something better

Dug up another bit re: Defiant manoeuvrability --

Memo circulated by Air Tactics Branch, Air Ministry,
July 1940

Comparative trial between Me.109 and Defiant with C.S. Airscrew

The trial commenced with the Defiant taking up a position on the tail of the Me.109, and endeavouring to maintain that position during evasive manoeuvre. The pilot of the Defiant found that he could remain in position during these manoeuvres which included fast turns and short climbs and dives.

The position was then reversed, and the Defiant pilot attempted to shake the Me.109 off his own tail; this he accomplished by executing a very steep right hand turn, and he was again in position on his opponent's tail after two complete turns of 360°.

gruad said:

A possible course with no Spitfire would be to produce the P51 under licence with the Merlin engine meaning earlier escorted missions. The Spitfire was a pure interceptor not ideal for offensive operations.

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Accuracy issues in this statement. The 'P-51' or the Mustang I was designed to a British requirement and didn't enter service until 1942 as a tactical reconnaissance fighter. It was not designed as a long-range escort; it was designed to replace the Kittyhawk and Tomahawk in RAF service, neither of which were used as escort fighters against targets in Germany. In fact, the RAF did not adopt the idea of long-range escorts at the time and, surprisingly enough, neither did the USAAC. When the Americans entered the war in Europe, the idea was to fly its bombers on unescorted daylight raids. British experience with the Fortress I (B-17C) proved that to be a bad idea. It's also worth adding at this stage that the British first put a Merlin in a Mustang, not the Americans. There was a plan for Gloster to build Mustangs under licence, with Rolls-Royce supplying the engines, which didn't come to fruition.

As for the Spitfire as an offensive fighter, yes, right to a degree if you are talking about the Spitfire Mk.I, but the Spitfire's performance increases through different engines and armament combinations enabled it to be used in that fashion. In North Africa and in Europe variants of Spit Vs, IXs and XIIs had excellent low altitude performance, with their superchargers designed to be more efficient down low, which made them excellent ground attack aircraft.