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Yes, but only because they deferred on producing more Henleys and Hotspurs. Hawker went into overdrive to build the Hurricane, as I said, but quick production, such as that during the Battle of Britain didn't just 'happen'. High production figures British firms experienced during the war were as a result of the war. working hours became longer, more factories were built, Beaverbrook in May 1940 threatened production managers, etc. None of this was gonna happen beforehand.
You've identified pretty much exactly why the Hurricane didn't enter service faster, but not why it wasn't produced faster - it simply couldn't be. That production increased was because of the war.
We have a tendency on this forum of just assuming that firms were going to do exactly what the government wanted, such as Fairey being asked to build Spitfires for the Admiralty, and like Fairey, it was another firm's prerogative to refuse and in the pre-war environment that is pretty much what happened. Hawker owned Gloster, which is why it could get that firm to build Hurricanes. Companies like Short Brothers had a government stake, so were more amenable to building other firms' aircraft, but if, say, Westland said, "nope, we're not building Hurricanes", there's not a damn thing the government could do about it, apart from threatening to not give them any more work. This of course happened; Boulton Paul wanted to build better Defiants and derivatives of the design, such as a single-seater, or even a naval Defiant, but the government said "no, you're building Rocs." So, they built Rocs. They could have refused, but it is bad practise to refuse a government contract, but pre-war, it happened if the firm had work already.
Again, how? Ending Gladiator production, i.e. not issuing any more contracts and focussing on the Hurricane was done, but stopping a production line isn't that easy, so finishing the work started was of utmost importance.
Not being very good at the job and being almost impossible for 50% of the crew to get out of would be vices in my book."The Defiant will never be remembered as a great operational aeroplane, but it deserves to be remembered as an aircraft with almost no flying vices."
The Castle Bromwich factory which historically produced Spitfires was under construction in 1937, with no Spitfires that would be a Hurricane factory, setting up production is quicker with the Hurricane and it needs fewer man hours to produce each plane. Hawkers were the only big players, they had an interest in a lot of pies, like AVRO for instance.
The Hurricane was at or near the end of its development, and would have been ineffective against later German aircraft, regardless of the numbers put up. Britain would have fairly quickly run out of pilots.The Castle Bromwich factory which historically produced Spitfires was under construction in 1937, with no Spitfires that would be a Hurricane factory, setting up production is quicker with the Hurricane and it needs fewer man hours to produce each plane. Hawkers were the only big players, they had an interest in a lot of pies, like AVRO for instance.
I disagree for the Battle of Britain period, with many more Hurricanes earlier you have more pilots, squadrons in 11 and 12 group based on 20 not 12 aircraft. The Spitfire was superior to the Hurricane but not so much that quantity didn't have a quality of its own, 303 Squadron showed what it could do.The Hurricane was at or near the end of its development, and would have been ineffective against later German aircraft, regardless of the numbers put up. Britain would have fairly quickly run out of pilots.
Intercept and shoot down German bombers.What job are you asking it to do?
Intercept and shoot down German bombers.
But, what about later? into 42/43?I disagree for the Battle of Britain period, with many more Hurricanes earlier you have more pilots, squadrons in 11 and 12 group based on 20 not 12 aircraft. The Spitfire was superior to the Hurricane but not so much that quantity didn't have a quality of its own, 303 Squadron showed what it could do.
I am coming to that, my magnificent plans for complete and utter world domination will be revealed in good timeBut, what about later? into 42/43?
I disagree for the Battle of Britain period, with many more Hurricanes earlier you have more pilots, squadrons in 11 and 12 group based on 20 not 12 aircraft.
my magnificent plans for complete and utter world domination will be revealed in good time
I don't think it did it really well, hard to say with so few in service, but if Hurricanes and Spitfires had a problem getting "bounced" in actions over England then the Defiant would have fared worse, since it was already made they had to do something with it, I don't see why it was ever placed anywhere other than Scotland and North England after the fall of France doing the job it was designed for, but it was.It did that really well. I can dig out the figures if you like to prove it. It was against single-seat fighter opposition that it didn't so well.
Be careful, I am sitting here beneath my aquadome stroking a white cat, previously undreamed of forces may be unleashed.oh oh... does this mean the Griffon engined Hurricane?
Be careful, I am sitting here beneath my aquadome stroking a white cat, previously undreamed of forces may be unleashed.
I don't see why it was ever placed anywhere other than Scotland and North England after the fall of France doing the job it was designed for, but it was.
With the "Hurricane tap" turned onto full by the fall of France the numbers of Hurricanes to Spitfires in squadron service was almost identical at 250 per type. The superior numbers in service and kills noted during the BoB were purely due to its production numbers during the battle itself. Dowding and Park only had 500 fighters at the start of the BoB. If that was 1000 you can use completely different tactics. Instead of calling on 12 group to protect 11 group airfields, they protect their own most go to the attack as directed some remain waiting to bounce any raiders who get through, so 12 group can also train more pilots. Also use the tactics of J Frantisek, bounce the L/W as it tries to withdraw.This is definitely true, the Hurri was the most numerous fighter in Fighter Command in 1940 and it was an excellent low-speed dogfighter, so lodged impressive kill numbers, but with the appearance of the Bf 109F in numbers in mid-1941, against which it was no match. The Fw 190 was far superior, even to the Spitfire V. Gumbyk is right in that the Hurricane had limited frontline appeal in Europe after 1940.
I think some of the actions were involving shipping protection, a turret fighter may seem like a good idea for such a mission, circling above with a turret like a portable flak ship, in reality it wasn't.Yup, precisely, couldn't agree more, pbehn. I guess the answer was that Dowding wanted to maintain an effective number of squadrons and felt before the Battle of Britain that he had too few, so Defiant, Blenheim, and Gladiator Squadrons were counted. Arguably, however, the Defiant should not have been placed in roles that single-seaters were doing, such as convoy escort, standing patrols, and intruder raids against ground targets on the continent. It was designed as a bomber destroyer to work with single-seaters against unescorted bombing raids from mainland Germany. How things changed as the war progressed.
There were only two Daffy day fighter squadrons during the Battle of Britain though and one of those bowed out pretty quickly in July 1940, so 264 was essentially the only Defiant squadron active until it was withdrawn north at the end of August. From then when there were none active, in mid-September, 307 Squadron became the first Defiant night fighter squadron when it equipped with the type. It only flew a few sorties until the end of the BoB. The Poles hated it though, since pilots felt they shouldn't be ferrying around gunners!
The surviving Defiant at Cosford is in 307 Sqn markings.
View attachment 6157981207 RAFM Cosford Defiant
With the "Hurricane tap" turned onto full by the fall of France the numbers of Hurricanes to Spitfires in squadron service was almost identical at 250 per type. The superior numbers in service and kills noted during the BoB were purely due to its production numbers during the battle itself. Dowding and Park only had 500 fighters at the start of the BoB. If that was 1000 you can use completely different tactics. Instead of calling on 12 group to protect 11 group airfields, they protect their own most go to the attack as directed some remain waiting to bounce any raiders who get through, so 12 group can also train more pilots. Also use the tactics of J Frantisek, bounce the L/W as it tries to withdraw.