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Unless Cancer claims him first, I can't see Mitchell sitting around, nor Vickers-Supermarine letting their 1931 Schneider-winning S.6B design go to waste. If his Spitfire is rejected by the Air Ministry or just not conceived of, Mitchell will make something else for Vickers-Supermarine's fighter submission. The only reliable way to stop the Spitfire is to kill off Mitchell. In addition to the Spitfire, if no Mitchell, there's no Shagbat or Sea Otter, so the FAA will need to find another aircraft for their cruisers and battleships, the Fairey III won't cut it.If the spitfire hadn't have appeared something else would have, probably would have almost as good. Perhaps a Hercules engine fighter (eg Fairy and Gloster) perhaps another Merlin engine fighter.
Assuming the butterflies don't pull Petter away from Westland, with some engine and armament fettling the Whirlwind could be a bomber killer in the BoB.concentrate on the Hurricane and Gloster whilst upping the Whirlwind....
Fokk that. No foreign firm has ever supplied Britain's air defence fighter, well until the RN's castoff F4 Phantom II. Note how all the lend lease land-based single-seat fighters Britain received (P-36, P-39, P-40, P-47, P-66 Vanguard and F2A Buffalo) went to either colonial defence, North Africa or were flipped to the Russians or other nations. The NA-73 Mustang was used by the RAF in Britain from Jan 1942, but solely for tactical reconnaissance and ground-attack duties. And Fokker's designers would have nothing to contribute to the British aeronautical firms, so there's no chance of hiring any of their staff.On a serious note.
Any chance for Fokker in this scenario? D.XXI with retractable gear and British engines?
Not in the single seat, single ICE monoplane variety. I can't think of any production British fighter of this type that isn't up to the competition. There were some prototype fails like the Martin-Baker MB 2 and Vickers Venom, but that's why you have competitive RFPs.For sure plenty good airplanes but the British aircraft industry made some utter dumpster fires.
Given the predominance of the Spitfire, where from 1936 to VJ Day it was the primary fighter of the RAF, with over 20,000 produced, by cancelling it we're causing massive butterflies. I don't think we can possibly know what might have been proposed and produced. For all I know Whittle and Gloster are pushed to get their jet fighter into service while the RAF relies on the Hurricane, Typhoon and Tempest.You have to point out where the Spitfire alike is coming from and if it's flying in 1936.
Our only hope of stopping the Spitfire is to kill off Mitchell by the late 1920s before he can design the Schneider Trophy contestants.Supermarine made a floatplane go 400 mph in the 30s. I don't doubt they'd have come up with something credible, even if not the Spit.
Our only hope of stopping the Spitfire is to kill off Mitchell by the late 1920s.
That's why I think we will see the same as the Hawker Sea Fury, which started as the Fury for the RAF but when canceled was offered in modified form to the FAA. The RAF rejects the Spitfire, so Mitchell redesigns it for the FAA, with mods for low speed landing stability, folding wings, improved pilot forward view, undercarriage strength and increased internal fuel. The resulting Seafire will be one of the best naval fighters of the war. The RAF will be demanding some.Or another, similar airplane by a different name ... a rose is a rose, etc. Mitchell wasn't going to let that dearly bought knowledge learnt on the S.6b go to waste.
Supermarine made a floatplane go 400 mph in the 30s. I don't doubt they'd have come up with something credible, even if not the Spit.
That's why I think we will see the same as the Hawker Sea Fury, which started as the Fury for the RAF but when canceled was offered in modified form to the FAA. The RAF rejects the Spitfire, so Mitchell redesigns it for the FAA, with mods for low speed landing stability, folding wings, improved pilot forward view, undercarriage strength and increased internal fuel. The resulting Seafire will be one of the best naval fighters of the war. The RAF will be demanding some.
What they learned was how to develop (modify/troubleshoot) a design in a short period of time using a lot of effort.I think Rolls-Royce learnt a lot from building the engine on the floatplane to, though I don't know which details.
I think they had to start and warm up on one set of spark plugs then change them to do the speed run, a bit high maintenance for an interceptor.Racing planes have never made good (or even useable) combat aircraft.
Please name even one?
The 400mph floatplane used an engine the size of of a Griffon running on a witches brew of fuel that would last only barely double digits of hours before overhaul at best.
Some of the low drag was due to the 145 sq ft wing. much of which also doubled as part of the radiator. as did the top of the floats. The Floats also carried much of the fuel supply because there wasn't any other space for it in the aircraft. and so on.
View attachment 616344
The tubes running lengthwise on the fuselage were the oil cooler. No space between engine and cockpit. Note the external bracing for the wing. Monoplane yes, cantilever no.
The S6B was a brilliant design for it's intended purpose but there is no kernel of a fighter design hiding in there.
Most racing planes have a rather low load factor (G load rating) and a low fatigue live. The airframes are not intended for high stress maneuvers or long life.
Germans wasted a crap load of time and money trying to turn the Me 209 and He 100 aircraft into fighter planes.
I think they had to start and warm up on one set of spark plugs then change them to do the speed run, a bit high maintenance for an interceptor.
To kill the Spitfire we need to have the Air Ministry reject Mitchell's design before the prototype is viewed in early 1936. Otherwise the AM would never have rejected it, no one would, look at this thing.I s'pose the question is whether the redesign can be timely for the war's onset, and whether the powerplant could maintain performance despite the addition of folding wings, a more-robust airframe, and the FAA's insistence that it carry two crew, lol.