Note worthy air battles in WW2

Very cool info up there Bill. Thanks for posting that. I will have to read it some more later when I get off of work.

Erich said:

no doubt Bill, can also think of several more, one of them my cousin in JG 301 KIA.........Schwarze Tag für JG 301, November 26, 1944. what a blood bath over Germany.

another real mess: January 11, 1944 another 60 US bombers downed

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Eric - maybe we want to do another "april 24" but work on "nov 26" -

I have asked Rich Muller to help me find some stuff, including the 2nd Div FO 529B to get the routes and timings similar to the stuff Ben Bennett sent us for the 24 April mission.

Your research on JG301 combined with mine on 355 and 2SF gets us nearly there.. I can dig up 445th and 491BG details.

As for January 11, the others that come to mind that focus on the triad of US bombers and fighters engaged w/Luftwaffe are 6 March (much has been written), 7 July (not much), 27 Sept (as you mentioned).

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:

Very cool info up there Bill. Thanks for posting that. I will have to read it some more later when I get off of work.

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Thanks Chris - I had a lot of help in weaving the 'threads' together, especially Erich on LW side as well as Ben Bennett who was flying lead in low squadron of 384th BG in the CW that really got hammered... This will be in my revision of the 355th history (expanded to cover Viet Nam and Gulf and Afghanistan actions)

Ben's 1st Div Mission Summary showing where the LW attacks occurred and, combined with my (and Frank Olynyk's) Encounter logs - derived from Encounter Reports and MACR's, pieced where the 355th and 357th FG engaged the LW.. Then Les Butler's and Tony Woods research on LW claims put the final time/places together.

I dearly wish some LW historian would take on the task of doing a LW wide day by day summary like Kent Miller's Fighter Units and pilots of the 8th AF.

One of the hardest things to do was to put LW award to USAAF fighter loss as the LW s/e fighters claimed 12 Mustangs but the 355th and 357th groups only lost 4.. so parsing who shot down whom and where leaves a lot to speculation.

Something like this will never be 100% complete because times and place recollections 'in a gunfight' could never be wholly trusted.

I picked this particular example because I have not yet found another example that demonstrated 8th FC Group/Squadron/Section/Flight attack doctrine against very large forces concentrated by LW over Muncih. It was one helluva fight that illustrated the courage and tenacity of all three elements (BC, FC and LW) in the air battles deep into Germany.

Erich and I have enough combined to do 'another' like this for November 26 battle between the JG301 and 355/2SF over Hannover/Misburg/Gardelegen area

Regards,

Bill

yes Bill and I know after contact with Mike Williams - he was having fun making comments and reading the April 44 air battle and wanted to follow up for a November 44 engagement the 21st or 26th which there is much on. For me personally anything on the 26 Nov in addition to what I have is a huge bonus

other "nasties" are the 28th of September 44, October 6th and 7th and the very ugly and massive (here's another November battle), November 2, 1944 a monster. so ugly was the Sturmgruppen attacks that besdies the bombers getting killed almost the same amount of SturmFw's got shot down. Hitler was so furious at the LW losses that through the channels he wanted to sack the Luftwaffe air protection on the spot.........obvious that did not happen.

a person could also look at the first useage of the R4M missiles by III./JG 7 on March 18, 1945, with over half the rocket kills via US sources due to Flak - ah nope they were all from rockets and it was quite the chaotic battle with jets flying rom all directions, B-17 gunners not being able to track and B-17's going down right and left during a incredibly fast attack encounter

A very small air battle with big results. April 18, 1943, Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto shot down and killed by P-38 fighters from the 339th Fighter Squadron, Guadalcanal.

I'd like to propose the Fairey Battles and Blenhiems attacking the German bridgeheads on May 10-14 1940 any one of those days . When the Battles went from modern combat aircraft to advanced trainer in 4 days. Amazing courage by the aircrew as both aircraft were unsuited for the battle they found themselves in and the tremendous 50% plus losses they suffered several times . Incredible guts I wonder what those trained guys could've done with Mossies

How about some of the Flying Tiger battles over China and the Finn's against the Russians.
Ed

For me has to be the battle of Britain, for its overall change in the war (Hitler deciding to start the invasion of Russia without having defeated the British - a two front war) and t5he atack on Pearl Harbour.

Operation "Zitadelle"

It was not only the biggest tank battle of all time, it was also one of the biggest "Air to Air" and "Air to Ground" battles of all time.
3.000 (or 2600 or 2800) russian aircrafts and 2.000 (or 1800) german aircrafts were involved, the russians lost several hundreds.

I also found a note that 40% of the russian aircraft were lost, the germans lost 30 aircrafts.

How about the battle of Taranto in Nov 1940?
Fairy Swordfish squadrons took out some major Italian ships and demonstrated to Japanese military planners that torpedo attacks in shallow harbors were indeed possible.

Also, while not entirely an air operation, the torpedo attack by a Swordfish caused unrepairable damage to the Bizmarck's steering gear, dooming her to the depths.

model299 said:

How about the battle of Taranto in Nov 1940?
Fairy Swordfish squadrons took out some major Italian ships and demonstrated to Japanese military planners that torpedo attacks in shallow harbors were indeed possible.

Also, while not entirely an air operation, the torpedo attack by a Swordfish caused unrepairable damage to the Bizmarck's steering gear, dooming her to the depths.

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Taranto......good one.