FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Just so you know, the OP began this thread 14 years ago. the last time he was here was Aug 9, 2008
Number of aircraft in a squadron?
- Thread starter hkishel
- Start date
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Admiral Beez
Major
The OP wasn't exclusively about fighters. We should also consider multiengine squadrons, like Bomber Command or Coastal Command. I think of the three Catalinas of 205 Squadron at Malaya in 1941, under Wing Commander Burgess.
I wonder where the rest of 205 Squadron was? Maybe in Ceylon, but they could have been anywhere. That must make the Squadron Leader's job a challenge. I suppose that no different than FAA squadrons, where the unit's Walruses can be spread across the globe on the backs of the RN's battleships and cruisers.
During 1941 205 squadron's main base was Singapore but it operated flights in Ceylon and the Nicobar Islands (north of Sumatra). Between April and Oct 1941 they converted to the Catalina from Short Singapore III.
The Singapore element moved south through the DEI until reaching Broome in Australia in March 1942 where it disbanded. A "new" 205 squadron then reformed around the Ceylon detachment in July 1942 taking 8 aircraft from 202 and 240 squadrons.
Hi
The book 'Aircraft for the Many' by Michael J F Bowyer, has some tables showing the establishment and serviceability of squadrons on the eve of D-Day:
I hope that is of use.
Mike
Hi
Alfred Price's book 'The Last Year of the Luftwaffe, May 1944 to May 1945' has some useful tables including the following:
Mike
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Mike - as always great information and dead threads are always welcomed to be revived, but as mentioned the OP you're answering hasn't been around since 2008.
Hi
Yes thank you, however, unanswered questions do make the thread look a bit untidy
.Mike
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
I love the efficiency of our members!!!!Hi
Yes thank you, however, unanswered questions do make the thread look a bit untidy
Mike
Admiral Beez
Major
We should also count spare aircraft. In Malaya there were 48 active Buffalo aircraft across five squadrons (RAAF 21, 453, 243 and NZ 488) out of 150 total serviceable Buffaloes in Malaya. Either these were spares for the four active squadrons or were waiting for other squadrons to form.
As an aside, can you imagine trying to defend Malaya, a territory larger than the UK with only four fighter squadrons? By Nov 1941 the UK had over eighty.
From The airfields | American Air Museum in Britain
In UK
Typical fighter base, 1944
In UK
Typical fighter base, 1944
- One Fighter Group of three flying squadrons, plus a Service Group or Squadron.
- Total Group establishment - 75 to 108 P-38s, P-47s or P-51s including reserves, and 75 to 108 pilots.
- Average base personnel - 1,200
- Fuel storage - 72,000 gallons
- Ordnance storage - 1,000 tons of bombs
33k in the air
Staff Sergeant
- 1,356
- Jan 31, 2021
Hi
Yes thank you, however, unanswered questions do make the thread look a bit untidy
Mike
Thanks for posting those screenshots. They are of interest to me.
Do you have similar tables for Bomber Command squadrons? Is there any similar data for squadrons in the Mediterranean theatre?
MIflyer
1st Lieutenant
And can you imagine doing that when the commander of a naval force does not bother to ring up the air force and tell them he would like some air cover at such and such a place and time? Those IJN bombers that sunk the Prince of Wales and the Repulse did not even have fighter escort. They were sitting ducks for those Buffalos, which were well within range.
They did, but by the time they had done so, it was too late; the radio report of the attack on the ships came an hour after the attack began and Buffaloes were scrambled, two from 243 Sqn and ten from 453 Sqn, but when the fighters arrived the Japanese were gone, all they saw was the bow of one of the ships sticking out of the water surrounded by people and flotsam on the surface.
HiThanks for posting those screenshots. They are of interest to me.
Do you have similar tables for Bomber Command squadrons? Is there any similar data for squadrons in the Mediterranean theatre?
From 'Aircraft for the Many' just prior to D-Day Bomber Command:
Transport Command at 1800 hrs 5 June 1944:
Mike
MIflyer
1st Lieutenant
He had asked for air cover for the area where he expected to intercept the IJN invasion fleet. When the RAF replied "No Can Do" it seems he put it out of his mind.
I recall reading where in that same timeframe a scientist was briefing the head officer in the RN for ship air defense on options for augmenting ship AAA. Finally the officer said, "Now, could you tell me just what this 'dive bombing' is that you keep referring to?"
The squadron ORB's record strength of aircraft on charge. For 419 Squadron there were 20, and 16 crews or more were routinely sent out on operations. Of course there were more crews on strength than aircraft. Additional information is available at the Base level (and perhaps Station), where additional aircraft and their status are recorded In the ORB's.
heritage.canadiana.ca
Jim
Royal Canadian Air Force operations record book... - Héritage
Royal Canadian Air Force operations record books : C-12292
heritage.canadiana.ca
Jim
Hi
A 'nice' story but probably total BS, after all in that 'same timeframe' the Royal Navy had engaged German dive bombers in the North Sea, the Channel and in the Med, the 'head officer' could only not know what 'dive bombing' was if he had been serving on a different planet. The RN had also decided to order the Bofors 40 mm and the Oerlikon 20 mm during the first half of 1939, to improve their air defences. The FAA had also used dive bombers in action against the German navy during the Norwegian campaign. The main problem with augmenting a ships AAA was top weight, it usually meant something else would have to be removed, it also meant adding extra crew to man extra weapons etc. which meant finding places for them to sleep on board (especially true of 'old' destroyers being converted into escorts). By the beginning of 1942 the RN was obviously the most experienced navy in the world on being dive bombed, it was also the most experienced in the world on Radar Fighter Direction to defend the fleet (another thing that was first tried out in the Norwegian Campaign during 1940).
Mike
Yes and proceeded in radio silence, but had still requested it, even if it was too late. I do suspect we are simplifying the situation somewhat, but yes, the ships should have had fighter escort of some sort. Not the first time someone underestimated the capabilities of the enemy.
33k in the air
Staff Sergeant
- 1,356
- Jan 31, 2021
The squadron ORB's record strength of aircraft on charge. For 419 Squadron there were 20, and 16 crews or more were routinely sent out on operations. Of course there were more crews on strength than aircraft. Additional information is available at the Base level (and perhaps Station), where additional aircraft and their status are recorded In the ORB's.
Royal Canadian Air Force operations record book... - Héritage
Royal Canadian Air Force operations record books : C-12292
Jim
To add to the above, here are some additional examples:
428 Squadron
31-01-1943: 13 Wellington III, 6 Wellington X
28-02-1943: 10 Wellington III, 6 Wellington III (Mod. 423), 7 Wellington X
31-03-1943: 7 Wellington III, 4 Wellington III (Mod. 423), 13 Wellington X
30-04-1943: 19 Wellington X
31-05-1943: 3 Wellington III, 17 Wellington X
30-04-1944: 21 Halifax II
31-05-1944: 19 Halifax II, 3 Lancaster X
30-06-1944: 12 Halifax II, 12 Lancaster X
31-07-1944: 21 Lancaster X
31-08-1944: 23 Lancaster X
30-09-1944: 27 Lancaster X
408 Squadron
30-04-1942: 26 Hampden
31-05-1942: 20 Hampden
30-06-1942: 22 Hampden
31-07-1942: 21 Hampden
31-08-1942: 18 Hampden
30-09-1942: 0 aircraft
31-10-1942: 15 Halifax II/V
31-01-1943: 17 Halifax II/V
28-02-1943: 18 Halifax II
31-03-1943: 15 Halifax II, 1 Halifax V
31-05-1943: 21 Halifax II, 1 Halifax V
30-06-1943: 19 Halifax II
31-07-1943: 21 Halifax II
31-08-1943: 2 Halifax II, 16 Lancaster II
30-09-1943: 21 Lancaster II
31-10-1943: 20 Lancaster II
30-11-1943: 21 Lancaster II
31-12-1943: 20 Lancaster II
31-01-1944: 19 Lancaster II
29-02-1944: 20 Lancaster II
31-03-1943: 19 Lancaster II
30-04-1944: 20 Lancaster II
31-05-1944: 22 Lancaster II
30-06-1944: 18 Lancaster II
31-07-1944: 18 Lancaster II
