P-38 or Mosquito?

Which was better?


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plan_D said:
The USAAF Night-Fighter units with Mosquitos and Beaufighters - WHAT!?!
Both the Bristol Beaufighter (used by four USAAF night-fighter squadrons) and de Havilland Mosquito (used by one) were used by ETO/MTO USAAF night-fighter squadrons, and in at least one instance for each aircraft, were not replaced with P-61s until the European war was over. The Mosquito was used by the 416th NFS until June 1945, and the 417th NFS flew the Beaufighter until the end of hostilities.
 

Due to the fact the B-17 was a day bomber and the Lancaster a night bomber I find it hard to justifiably compare the 2. Howver I feel that if the 2 planes were used in the same situation (day or night) the B-17 would always come out on top.
 
The B-17 bombay could actually accomodate 9600 lbs in bombs. It could certainly carry eight 1000 lbs bombs (which actually weighed about 1100 lbs).

Given the much less complicated and time consuming form-up for night operations, and the lower altitude requirement, there was pleanty of payload for the night electronics, most of which the B-17 already had anyway. Also, I didn't account anything for the removal of waste gunner armor.

=S=

Lunatic
 
cheddar cheese said:
Due to the fact the B-17 was a day bomber and the Lancaster a night bomber I find it hard to justifiably compare the 2. Howver I feel that if the 2 planes were used in the same situation (day or night) the B-17 would always come out on top.

The Lancaster was a great plane. It could carry a larger payload than the B-17 and it was significantly faster.

However, having B-17's (and B-24's) flying at night would have forced the German night fighters to treat every heavy they came upon with a lot more caution, and the Lancasters would have done a lot better as a result.

While it was proven that unescorted daylight bombers could not hold their own against enemy fighters, I suspect that at night they probably could have. Had the Lancaster been armed, lets say, with 2 x .50's in the tail, two in a dorsal turret, and two in a belly turret or blister, I believe they would have been able to do quite well against German night fighters. Against the B-17, I think German night fighters would have had a very hard time because of the firepower, armor, and overall toughness of the B-17.

There is certainly is no denying the Lancaster was one of the great bombers of WWII.

=S=

Lunatic
 
Wait a minute, there's Mosquitos in the USAAF had US markings? I thought the USAAF only had them in the Pacific. And in the MTO? I need some PROOF of this!

You wouldn't take out the waist armour, or the B-17 could be split in half.
 
I'll have to check my books later tonight, but I think I saw a pic of a Mossie with AAF markings in the Freeman book "The Mighty Eight, the Colour Record". I will look again. If I find it, I will scan it in and post.
 
I know they had US markings in the Pacific. I didn't even know the Mossie served in the MTO (LG, score one Mosquito that's Russia, CBI, Pacific, ETO, Russia and MTO - if it's true).
 
I did see a reference to the USAAF flyijng them with the 25th BG, 653rd BS in England from 1944-1945 as a weather reconnaissance aircraft. They did also fly PR versions. I am looking for the group numbers and will get back to you.
 
plan_D said:
You wouldn't take out the waist armour, or the B-17 could be split in half.

The waist armor was added to the B-17G to protect the gunners, the G model had 850 lbs more armor than the F model. It was not required for structural integrity. So you would remove it if there were no waist gunners to protect.

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Lunatic
 
I'd guess that USAAF Mossies were photo-recon planes. ????
 
and the B-17 wouldn't have been able to adopt RAF tactics, the B-17 was so unsuited to our tactics, not to mention that even your precious norden would loose allot of accuracy as navigation would have become more difficult, whereas we had some navigaional aids, although they still weren't brilliant, chances are they americans would still try and use their day tactics, including a long form up time, reducing the payload from what you estimate, even if it did carry more than it did by day it'd be slower, and the NFs would still be able to bring them down..............
 

When Curtis Lamay took over the B-29 effort against the US switched over to night bombing tactics in all of a month.

What is it you think was soooo difficult about night bombing?

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Lunatic
 
Night-bombing is difficult. B-17s with some modifications could take on Night-bombing, but not as they were. And RAF tactics would be adopted, the Americans weren't stupid - lanc.
 
RG_Lunatic said:
I'd guess that USAAF Mossies were photo-recon planes. ????
This is about the Mosquito in US service, its from this web-site
http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avmoss2.html#m8

 

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I found the pictures. It was indeed part of the 25th BG. The initial 20 or so were sent to Abbots Ripton to install chaff dispensers (I think the Brits called it 'window'). Normally, the bombers would carry chaff and the crews would drop it from the sides. It was also decided to have a separate aircraft fly ahead of the formation to confuse the radar operators before the bombers struck.

The red tails were for identification. It had previously been mistaken for an Me-410 by friendly fighters. The red prop spinner denotes that the aircraft was from the 654th bomb squadron.
 

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Those pictures are great...and what's next to it in the bottom picture? Fitting for the thread.
 
and RAF tactics called for long streams of bombers in very loose formations, no mutual protection, if you're jumped you try and corkscrew or take evasive action, something the B-17 couldn't do, by day a lone unescorted B-17 would be picked off, it'd be no different at night..........
 

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