P-38 or P-47 for Strafing (2 Viewers)

[tomo pauk]

Seems like that Americans were not that convinced that the radial engines were resilient to the enemy fire. We can note that Grumman took serious efforts to both hide and protect the oil radiators on the F7F and F8F, while Vought did the similar when the AU-1 was born.

 

[PAT303]

In air-to-air combat, centerline weapons have a distinct advantage,

I think it was Galland that said the nose mounted guns of the 109F were better for skilled pilots where's the wing mounted guns on the Spitfire were better for the average pilot, with nose mounted guns you either hit or missed compared to the greater leeway in error offered by wing guns.

 

[PAT303]

An LMG round through the pilots ears is a sure way to stop ANY engine, whether it be round or in-line. But in all seriousness, where the liquid cooled engine is more vulnerable, the air cooled engine is not invulnerable. Radials relied on oil as a percentage of their cooling, so a hit in an oil line or cooler or tank will also eventually bring it down.

The top scoring P47 pilot in the pacific was shot down by a Ki43 armed with one 12.7mm HMG and one .303 LMG, the most feeble armament fitted to a fighter in any ones book, according to sources he took a bullet in his back.

 

[PAT303]

What happens if they hit the P-47's turbocharger?

I think it was Johnson that was famously shot up returning home from a mission that was hit in the turbocharger or ducting which caused a loss in boost which allowed him to be caught by Mayer, he was very lucky Mayer only had 8mm LMG ammunition left.

 

[SaparotRob]

The top scoring P47 pilot in the pacific was shot down by a Ki43 armed with one 12.7mm HMG and one .303 LMG, the most feeble armament fitted to a fighter in any ones book, according to sources he took a bullet in his back.

That'll do it.

 

[Howard Gibson]

I think it was Galland that said the nose mounted guns of the 109F were better for skilled pilots where's the wing mounted guns on the Spitfire were better for the average pilot, with nose mounted guns you either hit or missed compared to the greater leeway in error offered by wing guns.

Is this centre mounted armament versus wing mounted armament, or two excellent Hispano cannons versus one slow firing, low muzzle velocity MGFF?

They replaced the MGFF with a fairly good MG151/15 15mm cannon, and finally with an excellent MG151/20 20mm cannon, but just one.

 

[Flylo]

I am trying to figure out whether the P-38 or the P-47 would have been the better strafer / ground support airplane after the P-51 takes over air defense / bomber escort tasks . .

I have read the same articles you have about the toughness of the R-2800, coming home with cylinders shot off, but the P-47 is still a single engine airplane. If that R-2800 stops, within a couple of minutes the pilot becomes a foot soldier. Lose an engine on the P-38 and you still have an engine to fly home.

Assume that the allies have reasonable air superiority, and our P-38/P-47 strafer being bounced by enemy fighters while flying low and slow supporting the troops is not a significant concern.

I think the P-38 is the better choice, but that is just a feeling.

Piper106

Knew a guy who was a POW in WWII. He was a -38 pilot strafing some Germans in a valley. Lost an engine and couldn't climb out of the valley so he had to come back and land near the very Germans he'd been starting. Got his ass kicked.

 

[drgondog]

I think it was Johnson that was famously shot up returning home from a mission that was hit in the turbocharger or ducting which caused a loss in boost which allowed him to be caught by Mayer, he was very lucky Mayer only had 8mm LMG ammunition left.

That story was a Caiden fantasy. Egon Meyer was nowhere close to 56th Fg on that day. Bob Johnson may have been involved in a little embellishment also. His P-47 was repaired and returned to service.

 

[PAT303]

That story was a Caiden fantasy. Egon Meyer was nowhere close to 56th Fg on that day. Bob Johnson may have been involved in a little embellishment also. His P-47 was repaired and returned to service.

Would like to know more.

 

[GrauGeist]

From Joe Baugher:

41-6178/6305 Republic P-47C-2-RE Thunderbolt

6235 (MSN 341) 61st FS [HV-P], 56th FG, 8th AF, Horsham St Faith, Station 123; "Half Pint"; Accident 16Apr43 landing at Horsham St Faith; Severely damaged by enemy action June 26, 1943.
One of the 56th's worst setbacks occurred when 48 P-47Cs left Horsham St. Faith to provide escort for Eighth AF bombers returning from a mission against Villacoublay airfield, near Paris.
As the P-47s approached the rendezvous point near Forges, they were jumped from above and behind by 16 Fw 190As of III Gruppe, JG.2. The Americans scattered, and 2nd Lt. Robert S. Johnson, flying at the rear of the 61st Squadron's formation, was hit on the Germans' first pass, a 20mm shell exploding in his cockpit and rupturing his hydraulic system. Burned and blinded by hydraulic fluid, Johnson tried to bail out, but could not open his shattered canopy. As he dove for the Channel, he became one of three victories claimed that day by the Gruppenfuhrer of III/JG.2, Oberst Egon Mayer, who claimed to have come close enough to make out the call letters HV-P of Johnson's plane. As Johnson tried to fly home, he caught the attention of Major Georg-Peter Eder, another Fw-190A pilot who had just recently transferred to II/JG.26. Eder's 20mm cannons were jammed, but he followed Johnson halfway across the Channel, riddling the American's plane with 7.62mm bullets until he finally ran out of ammunition. Eder then brought his Fw-190 alongside the crippled ship, shook his head in disbelief that it was still in the air, then rocked his wings in salute and peeled off for home.
Thanks to the P-47's ruggedness--plus sheer luck--the wounded Johnson was able to reach England, landing safely after a ground loop at RAF Manston, Kent. Picked up by a squadron mate - who was flying an unfamiliar British plane that almost crashed along the way - Johnson got back to Horsham just in time to hear Nazi radio propagandist William Joyce, aka Lord Haw Haw, interviewing Eder.
The German pilot described the incident in detail - again including reference to Johnson's call letters, HV-P and claimed to have seen his victim hit the water just short of England.
Headquarters Squadron, 67th Fighter Wing, 8th AF, King's Cliffe, Station 367; Damaged 11Nov43 taxying at King's Cliffe; 53rd FS, 36th FG, 9th Air AF, Brucheville [A-16], France; Crashed 13Aug44 at Carrouges, 21km SW of Argentan, France; MACR 8574. Pilot killed.