P-39 D Aircobra vs. Me-109

[Gemhorse]

Well, the great thing is that it's highly probable that Airacobras and Bf-109's should have the oppurtunity sooner or later to try some combat manoevres...The international Warbird scene is seeing some of both aircraft types achieving full restoration, and meeting at Airshow events...There's P-39's coming out of Russia and the Pacific, and a few Bf-109's are coming together out of Europe...Personally, I think the jury's still out on the P-39, it's maligned by some, and praised by others....

 

[lesofprimus]

Even still, the Aircobra was waaaaayyyyy outclassed by the -109... But yet some Russians had extremely good results in air to air combat...

Another example that pilot skill makes up for an airplanes lack of...

 

[Gemhorse]

Yeah, but I still think the jury's out on that too...How come the Russians could turn a US 'pigs ear into a silk purse?' - There's a famous propaganda poster of Russian Captain Tshepinog in front of his P-39 with 24 victory stars above the exhausts - They used them right-up to the end of the War. Besides that, the Aussies had 22 of 'em in the Pacific, the Free French used 165 of 'em late in the War, as did the Italian Co-Belligerent AF from 1944...plus all those already in use....-Another factor we overlook too, is all that went into both the P-39 P-63 in their respective developments, became of great use to Bell after the War....all that dinking around with shaft-drives etc. , went into the latter Helicopter development, so I find it very hard to dismiss the P-39 and all that was accomplished by them throughout the War...We could argue about all the radical German designs, and what became of them....I think the same applies here with the P-39...As a low-altitude fighter, I feel they acquitted themselves well, their main problem seemed to be the change in centre-of-gravity as they expended their ammo, which isn't much different from the effect fuel-depletion can have on some aircraft, just something a pilot has to take into account. One thing I've noticed about the Russians at that time, they made-do with what they got or had, be it Hurricanes, Lagg 3's or P-39's.....Rugged buggers, eh?

 

[Lightning Guy]

Same thing could be said of the Finns . . .

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

who interestingly used both british and german planes during the war...............

 

[Lightning Guy]

Plus American, Russian, and I believe even some Italian planes.

 

[lesofprimus]

The only countries that any sort of sucess witht he P-39 were the countries that got them for free, or lend-lease.... The Brits didnt want them, and neither did the Americans...

Beggars cant be choosey....

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

well you know what the russains are like, "Rugged buggers"..............

 

[lesofprimus]

Rugged beggars maybe....

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

they made use of anything they had...................

 

[lesofprimus]

Yup, or anything they could get their hands on....

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

or anything close to hand....................

 

[Gemhorse]

Well, one can look upon the P-39 as some kinda third-rate aerial wheelbarrow if y'like, but they are sure getting popular, expensive and sort-after these days...

 

[lesofprimus]

ANY WW II aircraft nowadays is going to be popular, expensive and sought after....

I think the last cheap WW II aircraft were back in the late 60's, when a few Corsairs were bought for around $1,500 bucks by a guy who was planning on leasing them for an upcoming movie about the Black Sheep, which never materialized....

 

[Lightning Guy]

But if I remember correctly those where the planes that where used in the TV series "Black Sheep Squadron."

 

[lesofprimus]

Yes they were.. The original owner sold them for $5,000 a piece to the new owners, who in turn leased them to the studio for the filming of that totally non-accurate portrayal of Boyingtons Bastards, although Robert Conrad did a pretty decent job portraying Pappy, atleast according to Boyington himself..

I have a great deal of info and feelings concerning the Black Sheep, seeing how my Grandpa was one of em...

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

i'm a bit young to know what you're talking about...............

 

[lesofprimus]

Baa Baa Black Sheep was a television show that came out in the 70's, detailing the exploits of the Black Sheep flying off a make believe island called Espritu Santo... All fiction, no realistic information or missions...

Loosely based on Pappy Boyington's autobiography, Baa Baa Black Sheep, which itself was loosely based on the facts...

The Corsairs were real, but everything else, especially all those cute nurses that they had running around the runway... My Grandpa said if that were true, and there were nurses there, there woulda been no reason for R R...

The opening credits of the show characterized the Black Sheep pilots as "a collection of misfits and screwballs," which Frank Walton, the squadron's Air Combat Intelligence Officer, and other veterans of the squadron resented... Walton wrote an article for TV Guide, in attempt to set the record straight." This article became the springboard for him to write his fine book Once They Were Eagles: The Men of the Black Sheep Squadron...

Pappy himself was a consultant to the show, and got on well with its star, Robert Conrad... The producers located some pretty good aircraft: about 5 Corsairs, a DC-3/C-47, some Zeros, and the ubiquitous SNJ (North American Texan) trainer.... The Corsairs in the TV show were finished in overall dark glossy blue, with no identifying numbers. Perhaps it would have been easy (and inexpensive) to paint them authentically... Pappy's Corsair is well documented... But one correspondent noted that un-identified planes were easier to re-use and make appear to be more numerous than they really were.

Baa Baa Black Sheep ran for one and a half seasons on NBC, 1976-77 and Spring 1978... There were 35 episodes: a two-part pilot entitled "The Misfits," 22 one-hour episodes in 1976-77, and 13 episodes first broadcast in 1978. The two-hour pilot was first telecast: on September 21, 1976... For the Spring 1978 season, the show was re-titled "Black Sheep Squadron;" the last episode aired on April 6, 1978.
The History Channel still airs "Baa Baa Black Sheep" from time to time.... The telecasts of the show feature brief interviews with surviving Black Sheep - usually John Bolt, Ed Olander, and Bob McClurg.

 

[Gemhorse]

Pappy wrote his autobiography titled 'Baa Baa Blacksheep'...He was the Marine Corps Top Ace with 28 victories, 6 of which he scored while flying P-40's with the 'Flying Tigers' in China. He took command of VMF-214 on 7th Sept. 1943 at age 30...IJN Petty Officer Masajiro 'Mike' Kawato shot Pappy down on 3rd Jan. 1944, who was POW until wars end. Kawato was shot down 3 times, eventually captured 14 March 1945 at Baien, having a total of 18 kills in 200 combat hrs., mostly Corsairs...his was apparently the last Zero shot down over Rabaul. He eventually settled in Seattle and wrote his autobiography, 'Bye Bye Blacksheep'!....He claimed a B-24 in his total, survived a collision with a P-38, and stated that they were easy to out-manoevre at low altitude but difficult beyond 5,000 m....I recall the TV series, we had it down here years ago....You would probably pay over $1.2 million today for a restored Corsair....

 

[Lightning Guy]

Every now and then I can catch an episode of Black Sheep Squadron on the History Channel. It wasn't always the most accurate in its technical aspects but I liked it. There was one episode that featured a couple of P-38s.