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Again, the point is that changes to a production line that was already full of orders for a plane that only matched rather than improved upon current performance (compared to the P-47 or -51) doesn't seem like smart money, when jets are already on the horizon. You're slowing down production of standard P-40s that are already very useful, while only matching the performance of the front-line planes. And all the while, jets are right over the horizon.
The P-40Q could have been a great fighter, but it really was a year or so late, in a first-come, first-serve time.
Not sure how much a -Q could have helped the PTO. Would probably be useful in CBI, though.
I'd advise stepping out from the US point of view and take a look at ww2 as a team effort. A team that was using thousands of fighters that were incapable of crossing the 400 mph TAS line unless in dive, even in 1944.
A P-59 jet fighter will not get us very far.
If you can get P-40"Q"s (or whatever you want to call them) with two Stage Allison's in late 1943/early 1944 with NO reduction in other types of planes AND the pilots to fly them (and ground crew) then yes the P-40 "Q" would have made a good addition to the US forces or even allied forces.
I'm not sure where this is coming from. I'm talking about the changes in production demands, not "rah rah USA" stuff.
Unless a pilot was in the USAF, his chance to fly a P-51 or P-47 were low, even in 1944. USA was not making fighters for themselves, they were also shipping them to the other Allies.
USAF themselves used a good deal of not-P-51s, not-P-38s and not-P-47s in late 1943 and early 1944.
There was 2000 P-40s produced in 1944, and another 2000 in the last 6 months of 1943. Making instead 4000 of P-40s that can actually perform is not asking much by Curtiss and Allison.
Also allow your competitors the same latitude, the P-51D was in no way optimised solely for performance, it was optimised to do the job that it was bought to do, that means carrying more guns and sacrificing some speed for a better view etc.The Allison V-1710-101 engine was first tested in July 1943 but performance was still a little behind. 1500hp WER at 6000ft (running at 3200rpm) wasn't going to set the world on fire and 1150hp at 20,000ft at 3,000rpm wasn't going to cause anything else to be canceled. There were some modifications done.
Allison engines used those late 1943/early 1944 P-40s were the ones with the 9.60 supercharger gears.
engine...............................take-off.............................miltary.................................WER
V-1710-99..........................1200hp..................1150hp/15,500ft................1410hp/9.600ft
V-1710-101.......................1325hp..................1100hp/28,500ft.................1220hp/25,000ft
V-1710-101 (alt).............1325hp..................1250hp/12,000ft..................1500hp/6000ft.
Page 154 of Vees for Victory.
P-40 "Q" went 9000lbs with the weapons load of P-40L or an P-40N-1. The "Stripper" models.
They could have made better "performing" planes in late 1943/early 1944. Go back to the four guns and 235rpg of the L and and first N.
The Later Ns were about 180lbs lighter than the M despite having about 90lbs more radio gear. taking out two guns would save 150lbs and using 235rpg would save another 140lbs.
A bit more work on weight saving, (better workmanship?) clip the wings, perhaps a trip to the wind tunnel
But they didn't. They were using them as trainers and as fighter bombers/ground attack planes and phasing them out (slowly?) in combat theaters.
The Allison V-1710-121 is the one that matches the Merlin 14SM but it isn't even tested until early 1944.
1700hp at 26,000ft (3200rpm) with water injection is very good. It is too late (and it took quite a while for Allison to sort out the -121 engine, if it was ever fully sorted out?)
Unless I am reading it wrong This early Allison two stage was fitted with a liquid cooled after cooler, weighed 1545lbs and was to be rated at 1150hp military at 21,000ft running on 100/125 fuel.
Compare that to a Merlin 46 single stage engine.
If I may ask which power chart is that?I was going by the power chart of the E11 engine, as installed on P-63A for the early 2-stage engines the P-40 might be powered with by Summer of 1943.
The MKXIV Spitfire had about the same top speed as a P-51B/C or D with better climb and less range which is why the P-51 replaced the P-40.Hi nuuumannn,
About your post that the Spitfire XIV was so much better than the mythical P-40Q, I agree. But, and here's the thing, the Spitfire XIV wasn't in service with the U.S.A.A.F., it was in service with the British, which would never help then-current U.S.A.A.F. P-40 drivers.
.
If I may ask which power chart is that?
Not challenging you. Just the only chart I remember at the moment is the one in AHT. Not saying it is wrong, I just doubt the date the WER powers were available.
For the Allison it is a question of what was actually available when.
The V-1710-45 (F7) was a 1940 project using the two stage system. The contract was dated Dec 2nd 1940, for one experimental engine.
However change order #1 was issued in June of 1942 and included changing the impeller from 9.5 in to 12.1875 in and changing from the friction clutch to the hydraulic clutch.
The original delivery date of Sept 1941 was changed to February 1943 so one can see how badly the program was slipping (free fall?)
A 2nd contract had been signed in Dec of 1941 for an experimental engine with intercooler.
It also does not appear that you can simply slap a 2nd stage on an engine, fit an "acme"* intercooler and "Bob's your uncle" have an engine that equals a two stage Merlin.
Unless I am reading it wrong This early Allison two stage was fitted with a liquid cooled after cooler, weighed 1545lbs and was to be rated at 1150hp military at 21,000ft running on 100/125 fuel.
Compare that to a Merlin 46 single stage engine.
The Allison V-1710-101 engine was first tested in July 1943 but performance was still a little behind. 1500hp WER at 6000ft (running at 3200rpm) wasn't going to set the world on fire and 1150hp at 20,000ft at 3,000rpm wasn't going to cause anything else to be canceled. There were some modifications done.
The Allison V-1710-121 is the one that matches the Merlin 14SM but it isn't even tested until early 1944.
1700hp at 26,000ft (3200rpm) with water injection is very good. It is too late (and it took quite a while for Allison to sort out the -121 engine, if it was ever fully sorted out?)
The Allison V-1710-101 engine was first tested in July 1943 but performance was still a little behind. 1500hp WER at 6000ft (running at 3200rpm) wasn't going to set the world on fire and 1150hp at 20,000ft at 3,000rpm wasn't going to cause anything else to be canceled. There were some modifications done.
Allison engines used those late 1943/early 1944 P-40s were the ones with the 9.60 supercharger gears.
engine...............................take-off.............................miltary.................................WER
V-1710-99..........................1200hp..................1150hp/15,500ft................1410hp/9.600ft
V-1710-101.......................1325hp..................1100hp/28,500ft.................1220hp/25,000ft
V-1710-101 (alt).............1325hp..................1250hp/12,000ft..................1500hp/6000ft.
Page 154 of Vees for Victory.
P-40 "Q" went 9000lbs with the weapons load of P-40L or an P-40N-1. The "Stripper" models.
They could have made better "performing" planes in late 1943/early 1944. Go back to the four guns and 235rpg of the L and and first N.
The Later Ns were about 180lbs lighter than the M despite having about 90lbs more radio gear. taking out two guns would save 150lbs and using 235rpg would save another 140lbs.
A bit more work on weight saving, (better workmanship?) clip the wings, perhaps a trip to the wind tunnel
But they didn't. They were using them as trainers and as fighter bombers/ground attack planes and phasing them out (slowly?) in combat theaters.