P 51-H

[bentwings]

We are just starting anew Rc giant scale 1/5 P 51-H. I have secured plans and permission to enlarge and copy them one issue is " how much taller is the H model rudder. " all I can find is " significantly large " no numbers we think the plans are incorrect wingspan and length seem ok . Belly scoop needs some modification too but we have good views views of it

 

[MIflyer]

 

[SaparotRob]

The H might've been a better combatant but the D just looks right.

 

[Sisu]

I have always liked the P-51H tail, though -- even on a P-51D.

 

[mjfur]

FYI - the first 20(?) P-51H's had a "short" tail that mimicked the P-51D before the taller tail became the norm. The taller tail consisted of a taller cap on the vertical stabilizer, the rudder remained the same size.

 

[Sisu]

That is actually not true. Look at the leading edge angle on the P-51D vs P-51H. The -H tail was quite different.

The postwar NACA tail, (and later Cavalier) was a simple cap added above the rudder on a P-51D.

 

[MIflyer]

The H might've been a better combatant but the D just looks right.

The old Aurora 1/48 P-51 was in reality a P-51H. Of course, they did not label it as an H and I guess everyone assumed it was just a poor rendition of a D. It was really not too bad of an H, although it was covered with the usual rivets.

I read that after WW2 the USAF was not too careful about overhauling engines and putting them back in the same model. So some H's got overhauled D engines and some D's got H engines.

And that nice looking P-51H model is made out of paper, believe it or not.

Fine Scale Modeler had an article on how to convert a 1/32 P-51D into an H. I'll look that up and post it if anyone is interested..

 

[bentwings]

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Thank for the drawing we will print it and try to scale it . Somewhere I saw 10" taller but I have not been able to re find that site . Most notes of the fact just say significantly taller. I had a hard time just finding good Rc plans . They are just a bit smaller than we wanted for wing span and length but I secured permission to expand and copy for our use. It will be a while before we can get much progress as we have our own " Air Force"of giant scale warbirds coming in line ME 109, P 51-B , 120" B 25, 94" Corsair -1 maybe another 100" P 51-D . We just lost our prised P 51-D to "electronic flak ( radio issue. We think .

 

[SaparotRob]

The old Aurora 1/48 P-51 was in reality a P-51H. Of course, they did not label it as an H and I guess everyone assumed it was just a poor rendition of a D. It was really not too bad of an H, although it was covered with the usual rivets.

I read that after WW2 the USAF was not too careful about overhauling engines and putting them back in the same model. So some H's got overhauled D engines and some D's got H engines.

And that nice looking P-51H model is made out of paper, believe it or not.

Fine Scale Modeler had an article on how to convert a 1/32 P-51D into an H. I'll look that up and post it if anyone is interested..

View attachment 767556View attachment 767557View attachment 767558View attachment 767559View attachment 767560

I built that model! To my pre-adolescent eyes, I thought "Golly, Aurora makes bad models!" The shape was just wrong. At that time I wasn't aware of A-36, P-51/A/B/C and H. All Mustangs were P51D.
Then I saw the Hawk P51-D model.

 

[Wurger]

We are just starting anew Rc giant scale 1/5 P 51-H. I have secured plans and permission to enlarge and copy them one issue is " how much taller is the H model rudder. " all I can find is " significantly large " no numbers we think the plans are incorrect wingspan and length seem ok . Belly scoop needs some modification too but we have good views views of it

I have found via the net the diagrams .. the top one is for the early Mustang then the P-51 D and the bottom one for the H version. A note though .. for the early P-51 (NA73) I found the value 67 1/2" as well. It looks like the P-51H-1-NA could have the fin of the P-51D as the interim one initially. Especially that the first P-51H was made using the adopted P-51D airframe. The slightly different appearance of the early vertical tail of the P-51H seems to be caused by the dimensions of the dorsal fin that was lower and of a different angle of the top edge than the one of the P-51D. Anyway .. the difference of the 13" between the D and H in the diagrams seems to fit the 10" mentioned by you.

the source: the net.

 

[bentwings]

I built that model! To my pre-adolescent eyes, I thought "Golly, Aurora makes bad models!" The shape was just wrong. At that time I wasn't aware of A-36, P-51/A/B/C and H. All Mustangs were P51D.
Then I saw the Hawk P51-D model.

Interesting . I searched for some plastic model of H . I found only one official unknown brand also found another very , very expensive only one left , but it was too iffy to spend that much on something that was probably junk I found a couple of bag of parts no box unknown brand . Again …. Not buying guesswork . I'll research blue prints and factory drawings again . I have seen more or less side by side pictures . With some very careful measurements you can back track dimensions to pretty close numbers . In our case even 1/4" off would be un knoticable to even a good scale judge. I've heard it said they sometimes go with if it looks scale , it is scale . My old big Corsair gun sight was a good example it was so ugly I can't imagine what I was thinking . Looking in the cockpit it was kinda like video flight sim it had red circle and cross hair like you see some times so it was called good representation LOL I WON 5 scale events which included flight judging so I awarded my self 5 kill flags again looked scale flew it 13 years as many flyable days as possible .

 

[bentwings]

We are just starting anew Rc giant scale 1/5 P 51-H. I have secured plans and permission to enlarge and copy them one issue is " how much taller is the H model rudder. " all I can find is " significantly large " no numbers we think the plans are incorrect wingspan and length seem ok . Belly scoop needs some modification too but we have good views views of it

The wing mod was one of the firt things we found . The plans we are going to expand have the straight wing. It will be nice to use smaller less expensive wheels and tires . If we can just get away with a cap on the rudder it would be good. Some pictures show a painted cap but the actual rudder may have been slightly reshaped as the fuse is longer . Something we will check. By this time rudders were being reskinned with the new atvtge time thinner stronger aluminum. I searched the alloy out by its inconclusive . Duralaluminum is noted this seems to be moser 2024 or 7075 neither are weld able easily the new flush " pop rivets were pretty common by the H time I wish we could see one of the very few in existence but they are just too far away. We are not trying for master scale there are a few events for builder / flyer competitions . I can barely see my feet let alone fly warbird scale so my expert flyer son will be pilot I will be relighted to building instructor . LOL instructor.

there are no fiber glas cowl or belly scoop parts available for H models so we can modify B model ones . The canopy migh be a bit harder as we would have to make a mold of a B model then modify it . However the canopy on some really was just a repositioned D model . Ibteadcwherevthstcwasvhiwvthevfinal one was created it simply used the same frame and sliding mechanics so we may go that way as we already have the parts needed . We have an incredible electric belt drive motor that can spin any 4 blade prop we want as fast as we want . We already have gone 7,000 rpm and 35?pounds thrust which puts this model in the 100 + mph range . Considering the H model was capable of 478 mph , depending on stats used we can demo close to scale speed at any altitude . As the crashed D model we will use our share of carbon fiber in construction . The electric motor runs so smooth we don't need " gasser" construction

 

[bentwings]

I have found via the net the diagrams .. the top one is for the early Mustang then the P-51 D and the bottom one for the H version. A note though .. for the early P-51 (NA73) I found the value 67 1/2" as well. It looks like the P-51H-1-NA could have the fin of the P-51D as the interim one initially. Especially that the first P-51H was made using the adopted P-51D airframe. The slightly different appearance of the early vertical tail of the P-51H seems to be caused by the dimensions of the dorsal fin that was lower and of a different angle of the top edge than the one of the P-51D. Anyway .. the difference of the 13" between the D and H in the diagrams seems to fit the 10" mentioned by you.

View attachment 767588
the source: the net.

Wow thanks forvthe drawing it looks like it's exactlybwhatbibwasvlookingvfor . My eyes are so bad I can hardly se the drawing on my phone but I'll have my son print it out he comes home . I have a new set of D plans coming so I'll be able to compare " real time " as it is said there might be a bit of reshaping to do but actual construction will be easy ironically the entire tail section from the trailing edge of the wing center back survived the crash without any damage. We may be able to salvage this for a new build even the tail wheel retract mechanics are not damaged . The tail was fabric covered but I'll change that to simulated aluminum I'm going to change the control horns as I don't like the existing system it's way too heavy and requires excessive nose ballast.

Carbon fiber parts are now available that did not exist when I originally built the plane . I may put the tail wheel retract on a diet too . The H model seems to have a smaller tail wheel too due to its weight reduction program
Light carbon fiber fabric was not available either so I may cover the new fuse with 1 . 1. 0 ze cloth. I'll be able to use thinner wood skin and bulk heads too
There is a veil material now that many are using that's even lighter yet it's about 5?times as expensive as 3/4 oz glas cloth but it's much thinner so much less resin is needed weight weight vs cost again. The guy that did the H plan set was a notable scalitist so I'm assuming his plans reflect this . I made the mistake of rolling the new plans out on too small of table it took half an hour to get them back in the tube . When I get the plans blown up I may get some C size sheets made for quick reference . Construction is radically different but I can make changes so it builds more like the D model plans these are very logical and I've built half a dozen planes form this designer . Including the 120" B 25 number two which is sitting at the second bench waiting finishing fuse and tail are complete now , all 8' of it .Lol

With a three piece wing it just fits in a late suburban between the wheel wells the fuselage rests the nose gear on the console between front seats tail just clears tail gate with rear seat removed

 

[MIflyer]

Then I saw the Hawk 1/48 P-51D

The Hawk P-51D was far ahead of its time, although not quite as far ahead as was the Monogram 1/32 F-51D. But if you compare the belly scoop of the Hawk P-51D with later Monogram 1/48 P-51B and P-51D kits you'll see the Hawk one is much too narrow.

On the Aurora P-51H kit I sanded off all the rivets and opened the canopy.

 

[SaparotRob]

I built a sticky gluey mess.

 

[bentwings]

Interesting . I searched for some plastic model of H . I found only one official unknown brand also found another very , very expensive only one left , but it was too iffy to spend that much on something that was probably junk I found a couple of bag of parts no box unknown brand . Again …. Not buying guesswork . I'll research blue prints and factory drawings again . I have seen more or less side by side pictures . With some very careful measurements you can back track dimensions to pretty close numbers . In our case even 1/4" off would be un knoticable to even a good scale judge. I've heard it said they sometimes go with if it looks scale , it is scale . My old big Corsair gun sight was a good example it was so ugly I can't imagine what I was thinking . Looking in the cockpit it was kinda like video flight sim it had red circle and cross hair like you see some times so it was called good representation LOL I WON 5 scale events which included flight judging so I awarded my self 5 kill flags again looked scale flew it 13 years as many flyable days as possible .

I want to thank you for posting the drawings . I'll try and blow them up to a C size or better. The issue is the line weight or thickness goes up too so if you try to scale something you have to use line centerline to center line measurements hopefully these were originally cad drawing reproduced from drawing board drawing using numbers . Never the less it clear the H rudder is very tall compared to the D model there are eve some B numbers we didn't have so these are very helpfull as we lay out the plans we can see if there are any major discrepancies . I'll even check the D plans the same way. The up coming Corsair has some known discrepancies so I may ask about these too . As that model will be expected to be pretty accurate ( F 4U-1) the really first good Corsair not many have modeled this one which is why we chose it I wanted the dash 5 model as it was the ultimate before the F- 2 G which I also would like to model . We talked about a bearcat but retracts ar almost $1,000 for starter . They bend like your elbow very complex . They take for ever to get too. Surprisingly the model Corsair will-out fly it assuming the same engine s
Long term after the B 25 is done we may do a P 61 black widow. As a model these are very impressive. With two of our electrics it would be awesome better than 1:1 thrust to weight ratio easily .

We are looking at a new radio system this system will allow individual receiver in each plane we would only have to select which plane we want to fly on the transmitter programming would be unique for each plane. I'm getting too far ahead here I post progress as we get mile stones.

 

[drgondog]

Wow thanks forvthe drawing it looks like it's exactlybwhatbibwasvlookingvfor . My eyes are so bad I can hardly se the drawing on my phone but I'll have my son print it out he comes home . I have a new set of D plans coming so I'll be able to compare " real time " as it is said there might be a bit of reshaping to do but actual construction will be easy ironically the entire tail section from the trailing edge of the wing center back survived the crash without any damage. We may be able to salvage this for a new build even the tail wheel retract mechanics are not damaged . The tail was fabric covered but I'll change that to simulated aluminum I'm going to change the control horns as I don't like the existing system it's way too heavy and requires excessive nose ballast.

Carbon fiber parts are now available that did not exist when I originally built the plane . I may put the tail wheel retract on a diet too . The H model seems to have a smaller tail wheel too due to its weight reduction program
Light carbon fiber fabric was not available either so I may cover the new fuse with 1 . 1. 0 ze cloth. I'll be able to use thinner wood skin and bulk heads too
There is a veil material now that many are using that's even lighter yet it's about 5?times as expensive as 3/4 oz glas cloth but it's much thinner so much less resin is needed weight weight vs cost again. The guy that did the H plan set was a notable scalitist so I'm assuming his plans reflect this . I made the mistake of rolling the new plans out on too small of table it took half an hour to get them back in the tube . When I get the plans blown up I may get some C size sheets made for quick reference . Construction is radically different but I can make changes so it builds more like the D model plans these are very logical and I've built half a dozen planes form this designer . Including the 120" B 25 number two which is sitting at the second bench waiting finishing fuse and tail are complete now , all 8' of it .Lol

With a three piece wing it just fits in a late suburban between the wheel wells the fuselage rests the nose gear on the console between front seats tail just clears tail gate with rear seat removed

Beware of one VERY significant change made as result of extending fuse 13". The 1/4 chord line moved from approx 133" inches from tip of nose to 139 1/4".It had the effect of seemingly moving the entire cockpit forward of 'normal'. This was necessary to maintain similar stability derivatives while adding the 50gal fuse tank. There were no aft cg issues with the H.

 

[Capt. Vick]

I didn't know the "H" was shorter than the "D"

 

[bentwings]

That's not correct the H was lengthened to 33.3'
The D was 32' even .
So far I've found that most of the length increase was because the rudder was much taller so it was reshaped. Actually " significantly taller" is how most sources call it. Thanks to posted drawings here you can see this. A cap was added to some D models I'd call it half hearted attempt to correct stability due to the big fuel tank behind pilot . While it apparently helped the H fixed it .

Wing span remained the same just lost the angles near the fuselage

 

[MIflyer]

Some nice shots of a restored and flying P-51H