P-51A 20mm shroud drawings?

[Bozothenutter]

anybody know where I cab find a set of dimensioned drawings for the P-51A/Mustang Mk.1a gun shrouds?
compared to the pictures the AM/ACD kit parts look off.
I want to cut them off the wing and machine a set in alu. This will make joint cleanup easier.

 

[BrownAW]

anybody know where I cab find a set of dimensioned drawings for the P-51A/Mustang Mk.1a gun shrouds?
compared to the pictures the AM/ACD kit parts look off.
I want to cut them off the wing and machine a set in alu. This will make joint cleanup easier.

500 p51-As were designated A-36 Apache. Ground support a/c. 2 .50cal in each wing and 2 in the lower engine cowl. 3 bladed prop on the Allison.

 

[Bozothenutter]

500 p51-As were designated A-36 Apache. Ground support a/c. 2 .50cal in each wing and 2 in the lower engine cowl. 3 bladed prop on the Allison.

???

 

[mjfur]

Have you tried here?

P-51 Mustang - Blueprints, Drawings & Documents | AirCorps Library

P-51 North American Mustang

app.aircorpslibrary.com

 

[MIflyer]

The P-51A did not have 20MM guns. The MkI had four .30 cal and two .50 cal in the wings. The only MKI to serve in the USAAF were the two XP-51. The NA-91, known by the RAF as the MkIA, had four 20MM and they built 150, 55 of which served with the USAAF as the MKIA was the P-51-1 or F-6A. The P-51A had four .50 cal guns in the wings.

Here are a couple of photos.

I recall a DC comic book in which the hero American Indian pilot was flying a P-51D with four 20MM guns, which was really cool and theoretically possible but in fact never existed.

 

[SaparotRob]

Johnny Cloud, Navajo ace.

 

[mjfur]

 

[Peter Gunn]

Johnny Cloud, Navajo ace.

As I recall, Johnny Cloud was buddies with Jeb Stuart and his M3 tank crew, watched over by the ghost of Confederate General J.E.B. Stuart.

 

[Bozothenutter]

Ok, I got my early Mustangs mixed up.....I'm punishing myself as we speak

Back to my question, the 20mm shrouds (see I circumvented the designation here!)
any info on what the taper was?
from pics I have noticed the taper continues into the wing, so my machined replacement will have to be a two part affair to be able to be inserted later.....
I have had a look at Aircorps library, but they only seem to have the parts catalog for this type, no sets of drawings. (couldn't afford them anyway.)

 

[Wurger]

the pic source: Boeing Images - Ladies with 20mm Cannons on a P-51 Mustang

 

[GrauGeist]

Would a 3-view of the Mk.Ia (NA-91) be of any help?

 

[MIflyer]

Well, I guess you could get a 1/32 Hobbycraft Mustang MkIA and measure those to see if they are any better. I have one but it is still sealed up and worth about a million bucks, now.

Yes, Johhny Cloud! I do recall only one story where he encountered the Haunted Tank, and that was the one with the four 20MM guns. He had to deadstick his Mustang into a hayfield, landed on a haystack the Stuart was hiding in and then used two of his 20MM guns to knock out a Tiger I. You know, they only made 1500 Tiger I tanks and I'd guess that the Haunted Tank killed all of them.

I'd guess that a single 20MM in each wing with one .50 cal would be a more suitable fit for the Merlin Mustangs, similar to the later Spit IX and XVI.

The P-51-1 also saw service with an A-36 unit in Italy. They acquired a few P-51-1 and used them for strafing missions where they needed more punch.

As for Indians in Mustangs take a look at some pages from the WWII P-51 Pilot Training Manual.

 

[Bozothenutter]

Thanks!, the three view is not to scale, but just to showe measurements (hence the sketch like drawing)
Finding the barrel diameter for the gun and some measuring in the same plane, combined with the wing thickness should get me close enough.

 

[MIflyer]

As far as something with a suitable taper, go check out some artist's paint brushes. They usually are tapered over a long length and you might be able to find a section that looks right.

 

[ColFord]

NAA Factory blueprint sets for NA-83 and NA-91 GD series technical drawings, GD246 detail drawings of 20mm installation including fairings, GD244 overview 20mm armament installation with servicing and maintenance panel removal & installation notations. GD246 then references down to subdrawings in GD series for individual components of the installation, eg fairing half upper, fairing half lower, etc. The blueprints reflect the 20mm installation 'as built' by NAA which would be appropriate for the XP-51B prototype, but the RAF 'in service' with RAF mandated modifications has differences, most of these being to the internal parts with the exception of the barrel locking collar. All the photos posted above in the previous responses show the NAA 'as delivered' 20mm installation for the original Oldsmobile Hispano II with external 'flat' recoil springs protruding forward of the wing fairing. Note the Hobbycraft 1/32nd scale kits were effectively upscaled pantographed copies of the AM 1/48th kits. All the errors and issues in the original AM kits are repeated in the Hobbycraft kits, just bigger and as a result of the upscaling, 'softer' in detail.

 

[Bozothenutter]

NAA Factory blueprint sets for NA-83 and NA-91 GD series technical drawings, GD246 detail drawings of 20mm installation including fairings, GD244 overview 20mm armament installation with servicing and maintenance panel removal & installation notations. GD246 then references down to subdrawings in GD series for individual components of the installation, eg fairing half upper, fairing half lower, etc. The blueprints reflect the 20mm installation 'as built' by NAA which would be appropriate for the XP-51B prototype, but the RAF 'in service' with RAF mandated modifications has differences, most of these being to the internal parts with the exception of the barrel locking collar. All the photos posted above in the previous responses show the NAA 'as delivered' 20mm installation for the original Oldsmobile Hispano II with external 'flat' recoil springs protruding forward of the wing fairing. Note the Hobbycraft 1/32nd scale kits were effectively upscaled pantographed copies of the AM 1/48th kits. All the errors and issues in the original AM kits are repeated in the Hobbycraft kits, just bigger and as a result of the upscaling, 'softer' in detail.

View attachment 689204

Anywhere I can find these?

 

[ColFord]

The best and cleanest and easiest to read and use set when they finish all the scanning and cataloguing will be:

Ken Jungeberg Collection | AirCorps Library

AirCorps Aviation is proud to be the new owner and caretaker of approximately 15,000 original North American Aviation drawings.

app.aircorpslibrary.com

Otherwise, there were copies on disk that were being sold online a few years back, that were scans from various sets of microfilms of NAA blueprints and technical drawings of varying quality that did include some of the earlier Mustangs in the contents of the disks. Some sellers included some of the early Allison Mustang material in their sets, others didn't.

Also there were a couple of the aircraft restoration and 'build around a data plate' shops in the USA they did have copies, again of variable quality, of the original NAA produced for USAAF microfilm sets that they used for their work. Given its commercial value to them, a number of them kept their copies with limited public access.

Have you looked at the P-51 technical drawings done by Jumpei Temma on his modelling website?

 

[Bozothenutter]

How do the GD numbers relate to what Aircorpslibrary have scanned?
None of the numbers throw up anything.

 

[thunderbird]

How do the GD numbers relate to what Aircorpslibrary have scanned?
None of the numbers throw up anything.

The NA drawing number is the 91-0914 in the lower right corner of the drawing.

 

[Bozothenutter]

The NA drawing number is the 91-0914 in the lower right corner of the drawing.

That's what I thought, but it doesn't return anything.