P-51D Diablo Normandy?
- Thread starter von hahn
- Start date
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Airframes
Benevolens Magister
I'll need to check the book "Silver Spitfire", by Tom Neil, to confirm, but I'm fairly sure this pic, and others, is in that book, taken when Tom (RAF) was a liaison officer with the 9th USAAF. From memory, the time period was around September 1944.
Can't get to the book just now, as I'm too darned stiff and sore, but I will soon.
Can't get to the book just now, as I'm too darned stiff and sore, but I will soon.
fubar57
General
I was on my phone....in the dark......trying to fix a hole with 3' minus road material......I'm going with that. From http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/352nd-fighter-group/
"Lt. Glen W Wensch, 486th Fighter Squadron, P-51D 44-13805 PZ-H "Diablo". This aircraft was previously assigned to Col. James B Tipton of 363rd FG, 9th AF and was serviced by the 380th FS. The original Diablo artwork was retained. Written off in a taxiing accident on 2 February 1945 at A-84 Chievres with Lt. Carl J Scaffone at the controls."
Photo: 352nd Fighter Group Association
Crimea_River
Marshal
Serves you right for working when you are supposed to devote 100% of your time to this forum.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Yeah, shame on ya', Geo!
Geoffrey Sinclair
Staff Sergeant
- 922
- Sep 30, 2021
Rule of thumb for a rough idea of acceptance dates, given there are always exceptions, Inglewood
Using the above table 44-13805, would have been accepted late May or early June 1944. Then add delivery. 44-15611 would have been accepted around mid October 1944. Then comes delivery to UK and its first incarnation as Cile VI - Luck of the Irish.
USAAF Study of the 179 P-51B arriving in UK 11 December 1943 to 21 February 1944,
83 on project 92215R, an average of 71 days from acceptance to arrival in UK
88 on project 92256, an average of 66.1 days from acceptance to arrival in UK
8 on project 92321R, an average of 38.2 days from acceptance to arrival in UK
Aircraft that were part of the first two projects went via modification centers, spending an average of 27.5 days there. The third project aircraft took over two weeks from acceptance to port of embarkation, over a week at the port control area and slightly over 2 weeks departure to arrival.
The 213 P-47D on 4 projects arriving in UK 29 January to 6 March 1944, an average of 40.3 days from acceptance to arrival in UK, none went via modification centers
According to Ken C Rust, The 9th Air Force in World War II, 363rd Fighter group, 380th Squadron code A9, 381st B3, 382nd C3, they did not use group colour markings, instead the colours were applied to the spinner and nose band , Blue, Yellow and Red respectively. When the group became the 363rd Tactical reconnaissance in September 1944 the squadrons were renumbered 160, 161 and 162, keeping their squadron code letters, then the 162nd switched to IX when it transferred to the Provisional Reconnaissance Group in October.
The 8th Air Force does not seem to have recorded any P-51D-15 losses on operations before early November 1944.
| Month | Prdn. | Cumulative | Production block | serials | Model | Qty. | Cumulative | To end block/Notes |
Feb-44 | 2 | 2 | D-5 start | 44-13253/14052 | P-51D-5 | 800 | ||
Mar-44 | 25 | 27 | D-5 | |||||
Apr-44 | 182 | 209 | D-5 | |||||
May-44 | 340 | 549 | D-5 | |||||
Jun-44 | 328 | 877 | D-5 end, D-10 start | 44-14053/14852 | P-51D-10 | 800 | 800 | D-5 |
Jul-44 | 318 | 1195 | D-10 | |||||
Aug-44 | 470 | 1665 | D-10 end, D-15 start | 44-14853/15252 | P-51D-15 | 400 | 1600 | D-5 and -10 (84 of Aug. Prodn. deliv. as F-6) |
Sep-44 | 450 | 2115 | D-15 | 44-15253/15752 | P-51D-15 | 500 | 2000 | (29 of Sep. Prodn. deliv. as F-6) |
Oct-44 | 501 | 2616 | D-15 end, D-20 start | 44-63160/64159 | P-51D-20 | 1000 | 2500 | D-5, -10, -15 (39 of Oct. Prodn. deliv. as F-6) |
Nov-44 | 501 | 3117 | D-20 | 44-72027/72626 | P-51D-20 | 600 | 3500 | (4 of Nov. Prodn. deliv. as F-6) |
Dec-44 | 480 | 3597 | D-20 | |||||
Jan-45 | 570 | 4167 | D-20 end, D-25 start | 44-72627/74226 | P-51D-25 | 1600 | 4100 | D-5, -10, -15, -20 |
Feb-45 | 480 | 4647 | D-25 | |||||
Mar-45 | 528 | 5175 | D-25 | |||||
Apr-45 | 420 | 5595 | D-25 | |||||
May-45 | 368 | 5963 | D-25 end, D-30 start | 44-74227/75026 | P-51D-30 | 800 | 5700 | D-5, -10, -15, -20, -25 |
Jun-45 | 336 | 6299 | D-30 | |||||
Jul-45 | 201 | 6500 | D-30 | All | All | 6500 | 6500 | D-5, -10, -15, -20, -25, -30 |
Using the above table 44-13805, would have been accepted late May or early June 1944. Then add delivery. 44-15611 would have been accepted around mid October 1944. Then comes delivery to UK and its first incarnation as Cile VI - Luck of the Irish.
USAAF Study of the 179 P-51B arriving in UK 11 December 1943 to 21 February 1944,
83 on project 92215R, an average of 71 days from acceptance to arrival in UK
88 on project 92256, an average of 66.1 days from acceptance to arrival in UK
8 on project 92321R, an average of 38.2 days from acceptance to arrival in UK
Aircraft that were part of the first two projects went via modification centers, spending an average of 27.5 days there. The third project aircraft took over two weeks from acceptance to port of embarkation, over a week at the port control area and slightly over 2 weeks departure to arrival.
The 213 P-47D on 4 projects arriving in UK 29 January to 6 March 1944, an average of 40.3 days from acceptance to arrival in UK, none went via modification centers
According to Ken C Rust, The 9th Air Force in World War II, 363rd Fighter group, 380th Squadron code A9, 381st B3, 382nd C3, they did not use group colour markings, instead the colours were applied to the spinner and nose band , Blue, Yellow and Red respectively. When the group became the 363rd Tactical reconnaissance in September 1944 the squadrons were renumbered 160, 161 and 162, keeping their squadron code letters, then the 162nd switched to IX when it transferred to the Provisional Reconnaissance Group in October.
The 8th Air Force does not seem to have recorded any P-51D-15 losses on operations before early November 1944.
Dcazz7606
Airman
I don't see any invasion stipes on top of the wings so it must have been later.
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GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
It has the black "distemper" line on the top of the wing (seen next to his left shoulder) so it can't be much later.
drgondog
Major
363rd FG 44-13805 A9-? Diablo, pilot Col J.B. Tipton Gp CO through late August 1944. P-51D-5-NA. Scored 1-0-0 air and 1-0 ground
Also on the leading edge of the starboard wing , between the prop blade and the bottom of the fuselage, the black strip can be noticed going to the wing top.
But it should be kept in mind that from 20.12.1943 the ID strips on wings, tails and fins for P-51s , P-47s and Tempest Mk.II were introduced. The strips were of white for camouflaged aircraft while those of the NMF got them black.
Mostly, the black strips on wings of the NMF kites became a part of the D-day ID set of strips.
The full D-day marking was used to the September 1944 when the strips were washed off from the wing and fuselage tops. However the black strips still were there because the marking wasn't ordered to be removed.
the pic source: the net.
A couple of examples more can be found ... Images of 4FG aircraft
The enlarged shot reveals that the D-day strips on the fuselage don't go around the fuselage but ending slightly around the US Star. Also the fin and rudder have the trace of removed strip what can be noticed on many P-51Ds with the black ID strips.
To sum up ... Dcazz7606 may be right.
drgondog
Major
Based on kis VC records, June 20 was second (1 gnd) and May 30 was first (1 air). ETO issued orders to remove top ETO bands on July 8 and 9 so image as presented appears to be between June 20 and August 26 when he completed tour.
Based on VC markings, between June 20 and August 26. P-51D-5-NA. Given top D-Day stripes removed, between July 10 and August 26 when Col Tipton CTD
