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And in what way is Germany "well ahead" in metallurgy today? I don't see any breakthroughs in heat treating, processing, welding or any other processing associated with producing aircraft
NONE - and they haven't built a whole airframe in mass since the war...FLYBOYJ, what fighter aircraft besides the Eurofighter does Germany build today ?
Again, nothing that any other European country and these days Japan hasn't done or done similar.Anyway I wasn't talking appliance within aircraft production specifically FLYBOYJ, just metallurgical science in general. A good example today as-well as back in the day is the metals generally used in AFV's, guns and tools (of all kinds nearly) the methods in which they are machined refined.
Agreed to a point but in the case of metallurgical sciences there isn't much differance, in fact the US has been the leader in Titanium fabrication since the U-2 days.As to production capabilities, sure the Germans can't mass-produce in the same scale as the US but they make up for that in the quality of their work, much like the Swiss - You don't have to look far to notice either.
OK, but there's nothing world leading there. I don't see any plasma spray coating, titanium welding or laser cutting state of the art facilities that are world leading anywhere in Germany. Its not to say that the German metallurgical industry (consisting of heat treating and special processing companies) are no further state of the art than those found in the US or for that matter any where else in Europe. The leaders in this science are the ones who can produce and produce "state of the art" with that said, it's the UK, Japan and the US.Point is Germany specializes itself very much within steel-making having depending on huge exports in this area.
Your proof for this claim of top speed is ...... .Koolkitty,
Just a quick response to your comments about turbochargers piston engined fighter top speeds. The Germans employed both turbo superchargers in their aircraft, and their quickest piston engined fighters (Ta-152 Dora-12/13) reached speeds ranging from 475 - 500 mph, thats faster than both the P-47M N
False. Ta152H were not used as airfield cover.
Soren that's what I thought you meant by metalurgy (as said in my previous post). As I also said the US also has much merit in the feild of metalugical engeneering. (see my previous example)
And on your comment on quality of work in steels, I heartily agree. Just look at the world famous knives and blades from Solingen.
Sheffield steel anyone.
Of the aifield cover with the 152, I thought that might be a mith, that's why I said I think...
But thanks for the correction. =)
Knives don't fly unless you throw them!
One more thing, I was wrong when I said the P-80's 169 gallon teardrop wingtip tanks increased drag. According to several sources I read the tanks reduced drag by improving airflow around the wingtips as well as improving roll (the same effect as the F9F's perminant wing tanks) and increased lift at the tips reducing in-flight wing loading. Though I doubt the T-33's tanks had the same effect due to change in aerodynamic shape and larger size resulting in high-speed interferance. (as FlyboyJ said they caused the wings to flap)
FlyboyJ, any idea of the volume of the T-33's wingtip tanks?
You've got to be kidding me Koolkitty!
In terms of metallurgy the Germans were well ahead throughout WW2, and they continue to be so till this day. The problem bugging the German Jet program was a lack of the necessary expensive metals needed to solve the reliability problems bugging their Jet engines. The Germans knew exactly what they needed to make their engines even more powerful reliable, problem was however that it wasn't in big enough a supply, as much had to be used for other projects.
What other projects took such a 'high priority' that turbine blade improvement retarded their best channce to attain parity in the air? As contrast with knowing what to do and having the technology to dit?
I also strongly disagree with your false theory that the US would've been ahead had they showed interest earlier on. Fact is Germany possessed better educated engineers aerodynamicists right from the start of the war, and they were well ahead in both fields from the beginning till the end (Hence the performance they managed to achieve with the Me-262 design) In fact the Germans have been ahead in aerodynamics all the way back since 1904 and up until the end of the 2nd world war. All of this mainly thanks to the fact that all of the ground breaking research before and during WW2 was carried out at the laboratory of Ludwig Prandtl at Göttingen, which was the main center of theoretical and mathematical aerodynamics and fluid dynamics research in the world from soon after 1904 to the end of WW2. This is where the term boundary layer was coined as-well as the place where modern mathematical aerodynamics was founded.
???? Facts Soren? The giants in theoretical Aero were primarily Theodorsen (Norwegian born, naturalized US), Whitcomb, Von Karman (Hungarian/US) and a couple of others - but all were making major contributions to shock wave theory, aeroelasticity, propeller aero, boundary layer theory and area rule shape theory - starting in the 1920s in the example of Theodorsen
Interesting, Theodorsen was a common base study for Fluid Mechanics and Intro Aero for me - and certainly provided the basis for transforming lift distribution and moment to an airfoil section from a revloving cylinder. It is the first example of a Complex Variable transformation that I am aware of and the only possible 'German theoretician (name) other than Von Karman that was even mentioned in literature or course work.
Most of the theoretical aero (including wake turbulence and boundary layer theory) for laminar flow were American and Brit - The Germans contributed exactly zero on modern aerodynamic finite element modelling through my own Masters and early (not completed) PhD studies on Aero in 1960's. We wer whores for best results in math, aero and physical modelling - Germans Russians and Brits were OK with us.
This is when computers were first introduced and ANY Theroetical basis from ANY source including German or Russian was important. E.g the Stealth technology from a signal attenuation contect was extracted from Russian theoretical paper in Signal Theory Math back in early 80's.
Who are you proposing as 'best German theoreticians and what breakthroughs are you suggesting here?
The laboratory first lost its dominance after the war when the researchers were dispersed.
Soren, I leave you alone for a couple of weeks and you slither back with some really bold claims - how do you define 'dominance'? and how do you base term 'best engineers' and how do you provide sources and facts to back these claims up?
Though I doubt the T-33's tanks had the same effect due to change in aerodynamic shape and larger size resulting in high-speed interferance. (as FlyboyJ said they caused the wings to flap)
FlyboyJ, any idea of the volume of the T-33's wingtip tanks?