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I was reading some very old post tonight and I began to notice a patern. When asked about P38 vs P47 most people picked the P38 including the die hard German guys. Now, it is, as far as evreything I have ever read, generally accepted that the P47 broke the back off the Luftwaffe. BUT, when the same people are asked about P38 vs either a 109 or 190 it invariably comes back that the P38 will loose every time. From all the posts I read, a P38 couldnt shoot down a 109 or 190 if the German planes were out of gas, filled with concrete and the pilots were on vacation. Add to that was the reasoning that a P38 simply couldnt turn well enough to ever shoot down a 109 or 190. One wonders after reading the posts if a P38 EVER actually shot down a single engine German fighter. YET, history records the P47 crushed the Luftwaffe despite the fact that it cant outturn anything and it sure cant outclimg anything either, except for the zoom climb. (I know, the paddle blade prop to)
Anybody want to explain the alleged discrepensies here?
Do we have statistics which show the average number of sorties performed before each aircraft type is lost?No one here would say the P47 was easy meat for any German fighter
Do we have statistics which show the average number of sorties performed before each aircraft type is lost?
Personally, I liked both the P38 and the P47, and I think under 15 or 20 thousand feet the P38 would beat a 109 and do ok with the 190. No one argues what the 47 did. I know the Mustang was a great fighter, but I have never liked it for some reason. Probably because everyone else does. I like the Corsair the best myself, but I digress.
I didnt think the Spitfire had a huge strategic effect on the war due to its short range. I knew it was an excellent, fast climbing short range interceptor but it had difficulty taking the fight to the enemy because of its short legs. Dont want to offend the Spit fans out there, this is merely my perception from what I have always read.
When I said the 47 broke the Luftwaffes back, I have read that more than one place. I guess if I were to define that, I would say it was in the fight when the Luftwaffe was the strongest and still had a well trained experienced group of pilots, took the fight to them(because of longer range) and caused them serious losses. By the time the Mustang arrived on the scene in numbers, the Luftwaffe had been seriously roughed up and had lost alot of experienced people that were being replaced by MUCH less experienced pilots. Not to say that they werent still a potent fighting force, but they werent what they were when the 47 first started escort duty. Just my opinion right now, I could still be swayed one way or another.
What percentage?
Combat accounts I have read suggest quite a few German fighters were lost to bomber gunners. You put 100,000 or so .50cal bullets in the air and one will accidently hit something. In addition to hitting German fighters I think the bomber gunners also scored a considerable number of hits on friendly aircraft. Spray and pray works both ways....
Its indicative of the p38s role that a large number were used for reconaissance, and that even p38J models were being replaced by p47 and p51 in europe during 1944. most of the early mark p38s in europe were used in italy/north africa, presumably tangling with regia aeronautica and luftwaffe transports rather than axis fighters
..... So I think when you read the P-38 would be a poor opponent vs a Luftwaffe fighter, I think the historic lack of effectiveness in the escort role of the Lightning factors in to opinions posted.