Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
Actually I'm not and I never had a dog in the fight. I've always accepted and supported the P-51 was the better aircraft. This started with your very simplistic and mis-informed statement that the P-47 "could not get off the ground to support missions in Korea." Yes the P-51 was the way better aircraft but the P-47 was not junk and performed its role quite well.
So just for the hell of it, here's the 1946 flight test report for the P-47N since you come up short to support your from the hip responses. This is the only statement made with reaguards to the P-47's performance at high weights;
"1. Due to the large quantity of fuel it can carry, the P-47N is a good long range fighter-bomber. Although the performance is not too good at high gross weights, it improves as the external fuel is used and by the time the target area is reached it compares favorably to earlier P-47N's."
P-47N Performance Test
No where does it make a statement about the P-47 "not being able to get off the ground."
And just for reference, here's performace data for the P-51H performed about the same time
P-51H Performance Test
Bottom line the P-47 "could have" been used during the Korean conflict at a higher operational cost. It would be debatable if it would have out performed the P-51 in the ground attack role, a role it was originally designed for.
So at the end of this, where is your reference for the "3 day engine change"???
Basically, the P-51 was more maneuverable and had better climb performance at most altitudes.I think your post captures it in a nutshell.
I'm not sure if you're right about the weight of the P-47 in the air-to-ground configuration, but even if that's true: It was more likely to survive the mission...Not going to make a bit of difference!
Flyboy the P47 could not fly off the Japanese made airbases in SK..period!
No one is saying they would have survived any better or worse, the point is they could have been used.In Korea P47 would not have survived any better than the Mustang or Corsair.
In fact less maneuverable a dna huge target would have fallen to the Migs a lot easier.
There is a whole Thunderbolt write up on the Internet.
The Thunderbolt would have been a logistics and maintenance hog.
They were in WW2...
You keep droning on about that and still don't realize that liquid cooled engines were just as vulnerable!!! Over 300 F-51s were lost during the Korean War. You could speculate all you want on how the P-47 would have fared. Your one sided speculation at this point does not consider operational scenarios, mission types and ordnance carried. The fact that the F4U had the same amount of losses as the F-51 is probably a statistical tribute to the Corsair as it was flying through out the war, flew more missions, flew more hazardous mission and flew the entire length of the war, but you fail to mention or realize that in your very simplistic and sometimes ignorant views of these aircraft and the way they were actually operated!Like the Corsair it would have gone down in Flames because of unprotected oil tank and cooler.
Plus on the P47 oil lines, inter coolers to the hot Turbo.
In fact the Mustang and Corsair had a better loss per sortie loss ratio than the P47 had in Europe.
Check it out!
Yep! That's what I meant.I have a Bill Marshall and a James William Marshall....same drgondog?
You will find it one day!Flat out BS! You've provided no proof of that. I posted the take off and performance data. The rest is just your opinionated babble.
No one is saying they would have survived any better or worse, the point is they could have been used.
You keep droning on about that and still don't realize that liquid cooled engines were just as vulnerable!!! Over 300 F-51s were lost during the Korean War. You could speculate all you want on how the P-47 would have fared. Your one sided speculation at this point does not consider operational scenarios, mission types and ordnance carried. The fact that the F4U had the same amount of losses as the F-51 is probably a statistical tribute to the Corsair as it was flying through out the war, flew more missions, flew more hazardous mission and flew the entire length of the war, but you fail to mention or realize that in your very simplistic and sometimes ignorant views of these aircraft and the way they were actually operated!
I'm still waiting of your 3 day engine change reference
I have and that's why I've called BS on just about everything you've posted. It's evident you're biased against the aircraft and you're entitled to your opinions but please don't try to peddle 2nd hand fecal matter here because you'll be called on it. There's plenty of data that shows the P-47 "could have" adequately performed in Korea. It's obvious you have no aviation maintenance experience to understand the difference between radial engines with dry sump oil systems and in line engines with liquid cooling systems. There's no doubt the P-51 was an over all better aircraft in many respects but what you posted in some cases was just half assed BS! If you want to remain a meaningful participating member of this site I suggest you start backing up your rants.You will find it one day!
Read what Joe B has to say!
I always felt the P-51 and P-47 had two distinctly different missions. The P-51 for high altitude bomber stream support and one on one combat with the enemy fighter aircraft. The P-47 provided great support for our ground troops.
I witnessed the roll of the P-51 pilots on the missions I flew so know of their excellent support at altitude. However, I only had one opportunity to see the P-47 pilots in action. We had just crossed the enemy line heading for our target of the day when on the radio I heard machine gun fire and guys talking. I remember one saying " I am out of ammo will return as soon as possible". I finally spotted them. It was a squadron of P-47 aircraft strafing the enemy at cross roads near a small town. They were in a circle making their runs. Their action was very impressive.I heard almost the exact same words from a P-47 veteran this past week.
Bomber crews tended to favor the 'little friend' which could hang around the longest, and GIs tended to favor a tough, hard-hitting support aircraft that can brave AA fire to take out imminent threats. P-51s had the 'Berlin and back' range, and P-47s were so important to ground support that P-47 pilots were embedded with ground troops as forward air controllers.
The amazing thing was that each aircraft was versatile enough to cover the other role. While perhaps not optimal, each could do a secondary role admirably when the situation demanded it. I believe this fact is why the aircraft get directly compared so frequently - they were good enough to blur the lines between primary and secondary roles.
Bill, thank you for your inputs - basically confirms 99% of what has been written on this subject, from someone who was "actually there".
I witnessed the roll of the P-51 pilots on the missions I flew so know of their excellent support at altitude. However, I only had one opportunity to see the P-47 pilots in action. We had just crossed the enemy line heading for our target of the day when on the radio I heard machine gun fire and guys talking. I remember one saying " I am out of ammo will return as soon as possible". I finally spotted them. It was a squadron of P-47 aircraft strafing the enemy at cross roads near a small town. They were in a circle making their runs. Their action was very impressive.
Eyeball view from about 20,000 ft. It took me several minutes to locate them.That's impressive that you were able to spot that from altitude - did you catch the P-47s through the Mk1 eyeball or Norden?
In practice, that's how they turned out but there origins were a bit more complicatedI always felt the P-51 and P-47 had two distinctly different missions. The P-51 for high altitude bomber stream support and one on one combat with the enemy fighter aircraft.
Yeah, it was extremely rugged and turned out to work magnificently in that area. It's ironic that it was originally designed for high altitudeThe P-47 provided great support for our ground troops.